Aby The Liberal

335 Responses to “India vs China on Military Strength - Conventional and Nuclear”

1. # Well-Wisher on 25 Jan 2009 at 12:47 pm

   I can’t upload my posts anymore in this site both (India vs China & India vs Pakistan). I kindly requestt you to troubleshoot it. Thanks lot.

   To all Chinese: My best wishes for a Happy and Prosperous Lunar New Year.
   May this Auspicious Ox year bring good Health, Wealth, and Fortune for everyone of you. Let China grow as a Great Country.

2. # George Bush on 31 Jan 2009 at 6:32 pm

   The reason why the the western world, in particular the neo-conservative factions are hyping up and siding with India while trying to put China down is because of a historical fear the white (caucasian) race has of the yellow (oriental) race.
   Throughout history, from the Huns who humiliated the mighty Romans, to the Mongols under Ghengis Khan and his grandsons to the Japanese at Pearl Harbour to the Vietnamese in the Vietnam war, the East Asian race has kicked the white race’s ass while the South Asian’s have traditionally licked the white race’s ass. Therefore the western fear of China’s rise as a superpower that could challenge the western world’s global dominance.
   The west courts India not because India has any true superpower potential but because Indians are sycophants and willing lackeys to the white race, is conviniently located right next door to China and more that willing to take orders from the whites.

3. # Kundan on 04 Feb 2009 at 12:29 pm

   Dimitri has made some valid points regarding a stark contrast comparision between Indian and Chinese army. Though, this does not take into account the current Indian modernization Indian army, airforce and navy is into, still I would agree that if a war break outs (which is not likely to happen) between China and India today China will definitely will have an upper hand. Following will be the results:

   If India is the aggressor, then it will mean huge loses to Indian defense and will not survive for long as China with its military supremacy will easily withstand any Indian aggression

   If china is the aggressor, though China will face huge casualty they will be able to capture a few stratigic points near eastern India and Kashmir. However, I doubt they will be able to root into deep India as their communication at those level will become to weak and irrational to advance. Therefore, in conclusion they will gain some land however this will only happen at a huge cost to them as India with tactical retreat will dig themselves at higher altitude.

   If both play sorties and artillery with eachother, then both will probably lose equal ground and suffer similar casualty. However, if Missiles are used, because of superior missiles and tight air defense China will case lethal damage to India.

   Therefore, at present if India and China gets into war without anyones intervention India will more or less be beaten easily.

   Please don’t curse me Indian brothers I am just a rational Indian and not a Pakistani who hype their power when compared to us. India is a strong, secular and growing state and is for the future.

   Jai hind!!!

4. # Mahacina on 08 Feb 2009 at 7:23 pm

   Namasde Indian friends, I am sorry for some insulting or arrogant remarks I made here a few months ago. India and China should not and will not go to war again, definitely. Although we are competitors in some respects but that does not mean that competition prevails in the bilateral relationship. There are also cooperations there.

   India had been spiritual leader of all of Asia for thousands of years and her peaceful philosophy conquered Asia without sending a soldier on foreign soil. I don’t believe bellicose Hindutva militants can take over even after the Mumbai terrorist attack.

   Although China is a little bit ahead of India in terms of economic development, both countries still have hundreds of millions of people living under poverty line. Let us squander less limited resources on weaponry and more on improving the well-being of the people. Let’s pray for peace. And by the way, please accept my deep condolences to the victims of the Mumbai terrorist attack.

5. # PRITESH on 13 Feb 2009 at 4:25 pm

   Mr. George Bush.

   U say indians are wiling to take commands from the whites.
   In one way u r correct.

   But that was long back.

   50% of Indians are of my age (approx 20-25)

   And my generation is well educated to take our own decisions.

   But for some years we have to take commands from u bcoz u people are the big boss at present.

   But one day when India becomes a developed country (INSHALLAH). We will never try to dominate like big boss. But we will serve humanity….

   Vande mataram

6. # QURIOUS on 19 Feb 2009 at 3:50 pm

   That’s really a great discussion. I respect the views of all of you. But, I believe India has never been and would never follow any other powers’ command. We are sovereign enough to take our own decisions be it political or strategic. China, USA, Pakistan, or for that matter no country is our foe. We believe in live and let live. I beg to differ from what Mr PITESH said that “some years we have to take commands from u bcoz u people are the big boss at present”. I strongly condemn this statement. Whatever we have done in our past and we are doing now, is onlya after considering our own interests and world peace at large. I am not of the view that a particular country or region is that BIG BOSS. It’s really sad that people live with this misconception. People may feel that because Indian Govt is little bit closer to the West than Chinese or Pakistanis, but we are there because of our mutual understanding and required cooperation. We are for the progress of humanity and for giving the habitants of Mother Earth a better and peaceful life and continuous love towards nature.

7. # suresh on 23 Feb 2009 at 10:17 am

   I agree with Mahacina .

   China is not our enemy. China and India is economy competitor only.

   Think the great Indian spiritual leader Buddha living with Chinese people heart and also in Indian People heart.

   These two countries are following the Buddha’s way. why we need to fight. we need to spread the peace to whole world. This is two countries job. so that Buddha birth in India and spread the philosophy to china.

   Please avoid this kind of thought also avoid kind of blogs.Please

8. # Aka on 03 Mar 2009 at 5:30 am

   George Bush, get some facts about how many Indians hold top position in blue chips in USA….warren buffet successor will be an Indian…what more do you want me to say ? get ready for some commands..sitting in cold somewhere in snow living on benefits of govt. and talk like a rebel from Africa.

   Get some life dude…

   India Pakistan and China should come together…Believe me this will be a nightmare for WEST…..they want us to be divided and keep fighting. But we Asians should understand each other and leave the differences behind. I am India studying in UK…I have many chinese friends..they are really very good people and they love Indian people…. I have first hand experience…dont let hatred spread between India China and Pakistan. West have always been racist towards Asians…and they will use India against China…Pakistan for their purpose in Afghanistan and Iraq…..

9. # PREM on 06 Mar 2009 at 11:53 am

   AKA,

   I completely agree with you. If the Asians (China, India,Pakistan..) unite then the West will have nightmares. From past few decades the WEST is trying to dominate over us.

   For example see the co operation between Britain & US, they fight as a single force. Similar to this if China & India joins hand then in Asia also we can see Win Win situation. All the countries in South Asia will also benefited by this.

   But the Question is who has to play the role of Big brother ?

   US support China & Pakistan, whereas Russia supports China & India.

10. # Arjun on 14 Mar 2009 at 1:39 am

    i agree with most of the views here and i would say that it has been almost 7 centuries, the westerners have dominated,TRUE and the time is coming for the asians to do the same.what worries me that they may spoil it all by building tensions between them. from the case of US and UK,it is clear that the whites tend to join hands in difficult situations and according to situations while asians will harbour their internal conflict and take help from outside to beat each other, rather they should come closer and form such a economic zone that the world depends on them rather than vice versa. the ploy of whites of “divide and rule” has worked effectively in ASIA as well.most of the nations in the west don’t like to see asians prospering. there have been numerous examples in the past.i think CHINA can really work as BIG BROTHER well enough to bring asia together. it has some or the other relations with every nation. also INDIA should help. but all this can only go beyond only when INDIA CHINA join hands.

11. # shyam on 05 Apr 2009 at 6:29 am

    Dear friends,
    The so called whites do have a point when they side India against China or assist in the development of a arms race in asia.India has always been divided the people from the north dont like the people from south and like wise the south and north ,the west and the east of India are equally divided e.g shiv sena etc.
    The westerners know that all it takes is one flame and india will break, be it a regional issue or religion we look united but we are divided in every way.China on the other had has the same language spoken or at least understood across the entire China they dont believe in religion i.e 70% of Chinese ;thats huge.Indians differ from one state to the other in food clothing language and looks; by way of their race.The British knew this by way of the east India company and ruled India for 2 centuries and so do the Americans.Hence friends if we have to change and become a superpower we have to kick people like the illiterate govt jackasses who are ruling and plan to rule India in the future.
    We have no problem to let a actor who has been acting all his life be a politician .i mean acting is what he is good at and he knows nothing about the the countries economy or we prefer illiterate bureaucrats who cant sign their own names and resort to thumb impressions as our defense minister.
    Well jai ho to pitiable future.

12. # Nicolas on 07 Apr 2009 at 3:42 pm

    You people just don’t get it. While Canada, France, UK, Australia, the USA along with their more recent allies mostly just seek peace and are overall impose themselves limits on their defense spendings, prioritizing on technological development, whilst focusing and ensuring the wealth and well being of their citizens , some stupid countries will spend 30% of their GDP on militarizing, either with obsolete technologies, or with weapon that will easily be rendered obsolete in time of war, if (not then say when) that will eventually occur. Either way, those countries often refered to as ‘The West’ altogether, peaceful as we are do ensure that no ill-intentionned counties can overwhelm our defenses. Should we be agressed, or sense agression, we have more ressources than any enemy of the peace, more education, more technological, and more industrial capabilities than any to deal with the enemy. Should any Nation(s) force us to go to war, we will defend our freedom and anihilate the agressors.

13. # Zote on 08 Apr 2009 at 12:23 pm

    This is no time for anothor cold war, which the West (US) is trying to create between India and China. Pakistan is a failed state, which everybody knows. China should not support Pakistan morally, financially nor militarly. There is so much developments needed for India and China to catch up with the west, we should not involve in this arm race. Let us work together economically and can surpass US. This is what US does not want

14. # Prakash on 09 Apr 2009 at 7:35 pm

    It’s not between India or China.It’s East or West.We must not think about the past(Indo-China war).Past is Past.We have one thing in Common.We are asians.And we are friends of Russia.Let the RUSSIA can be our big brother.If Russo-sino-india Join the hand,It will be an Weapon which gives more effect to West than A hydrogen Bomb.Let us Unite.

15. # Arvind on 12 Apr 2009 at 6:17 am

    China will beat India hands down militarily if war broke out today. In 20 - 30 years time, India may have parity in terms of military hardware if the economy takes off. We also have to worry about getting system of governance in place. Corruption is a very big issue. All our plans fail because we don’t have ability to execute them.
    Regarding, peace between India and China due to cultural influences is a lot of baloney. Buddhism was enhanced by Chinese Philosophers and China had already developed Taoism which influenced Buddhism as well. So the whole talk of cultural superiority of India is a big hype.

16. # rahulsampath on 13 Apr 2009 at 8:47 am

    The Indian army had on March 25 concluded a three-day military exercise codenamed Divine Matrix, based on the assumption a “nuclear-armed China will attack India before 2017.It said that before the exercise, the Indian military spent six months studying various hypothetical scenarios of war with Beijing.India and Russia would test a 5th gen aircraft by the end of this year and by 2010 it will induct 200 Tejas [LC Aircraft developed indegeneously],3 indigeneous nuclear submarines [named ATV which was developed secretly].By 2015 India will have 3 Aircraft carrier of which one is from Russia[to be inducted in 2012] and other 2 developed indegeneously and also there is an auction taking place for 126 MC Aircrafts.

17. # singhgill on 26 Apr 2009 at 5:22 am

    well guys i dont support war but i think democratic government is nothing china is ahead of us because of our weak government.i think china is great country with excellent leader.india tooo is great but if citizens of india were also that great today india would have stood somewhere else in world leaving behind many.the conclusion is let us not blame westerns or anyone else we must agree that we must have some faults thats why today we r not as progressed as westerns r.so let us change ourselves to responsible citizens and change the fate of our country.shakespear has rightly remarked there is nothing wrong in our stars but in ourselves.so all guys work hard for ur country and ofcourse be united rather then blaming anyone.sry in advance if anyone didnt liked that post.

18. # Allen on 28 Apr 2009 at 10:17 pm

    It is great to see all of the rational postings from all sides. If the two country can be in close alliance, then the US would be truely afraid. In terms of war between India and China, unless it is border clashes, I don’t see each other will be into full scale war simply because of logicstics. Sending troops over the himalaya to conqure/occupy India is just not feasible. The reverse is true for India come over and occupy Tibet is simply not doable at all. Then why not make amends.

    One problem I do see from Indian perspective is unwillingness to let go the conflict in 1962. There are still wide spread anger and distrust in India towards China. Partially from 1962 and partially from support of Parkistan. That is a big obstical to establish a true alliance like US and UK. From Chinese side, the 1962 war has long forgotten and hardly been in people’s mind. So it is easier there. But a lot of hostile comments from India side and close relationship with US just does not help the matter.

    Call me a pessimist, Frankly I don’t think I will see this happening in my life time. I am in my 30s and grow up in China and now live in US. The best case would be because of economical ties, the two country becoming closed tied that may mirror the love/hate relationship with US.

19. # Desiguy on 30 Apr 2009 at 2:56 am

    @ Allen

    you are absoulty right, and i would say it’s both countries fault, India and china.

    As long as china is helping Pakistan, India relations with china won’t be that good.
    India should also forget about what happen in 1962 and should focus now on it’s land, military, economy, and politically.

20. # micheal won on 07 May 2009 at 1:32 pm

    The world needs peace. So does China, India and Pakistan. Maybe the communication between us is best way to know and understand each other to get well on. I believe non of president both each other and kind chinese and indian would like to see war happen in future to bring damage into people and the whole country.

21. # RANGARAJ on 15 May 2009 at 2:31 pm

    China is an authoritarian communist country ruled by an oligarchy. India is democratic ( howsoever flawed it is) and rulers have to be elected by an electoral process. This results in not so powerful a central government. In the situation, comparing India ( with both its hands tied) with a China whose hands are moving in all directions is not realistic. 90% of the Chinese population is of Han origin and in India population differs every few hundred or dozen kilometres. Inspite of this, India’s progress is not mean even in comparison to China’s. Process of nation building is not even quarter way in India( not even halfway as in the case of China). It is the next 25 years that will tell us where we are in comparison with others in the world.But in the case of a conflict, neither china nor India will have a easy way. Chances of China collapsing in a economic crisis of huge magnitude ( which is hidden in China but signs are visible, more than $700 Billion in NPA of their banks) is real and they may have to vacate Tibet, come what may. After this India and China may have a better relationship. China overcoming India because of a few extra thermo nuclear weapons is all bull.

22. # Abhishek on 28 May 2009 at 1:21 am

    Just a point to make, try mobilizing China’s massive army through the tiny pass in the Himalayas. Than try to coordinate that with monsoon season and the scorching heats that follow. A war would be disastrous. However, Asia needs to form something like the EU. Look at the results with that. It makes NATO look like a tea party. Asia is economically progressing and reforming fast. The West definitely does not want that.

23. # Indian patriot on 31 May 2009 at 4:06 am

    This idea that india is a weak or dependant race on the west is just an outgrowth of colonial prejudices. It is not true! Did you forget that china too was colonised and looted by the west? India new found western alignment make sense strategically. India has an open democracy (flawed no doubt) but its goverment is focused on empowering and uplifting the comman man. China has a closed system of power that works well but leaves the comman man powerless. As india grows into a great power it is only natural that its foreign policy becomes more hawkish in order to protect its interests. At that time we will see the kind of military build up and capability that can rival china. There will come a day when India’s need for power, to counter china will mean that India become just as if not more powerful. The reason china is ahead now is because it underwent economic librealisation 15 years earlier then India. Therefore in 15 years, expect to see india is a similarly powerful ascent. Our population is younger eventually India will be the greatest supwerpower in the world. Today we have begun that ascent and it is sensible to align with the powerful west in order to facilitate our rise. The India empire is coming back!

24. # James Kally on 31 May 2009 at 4:45 pm

    All I can see is that most (if not all) Indians are lazy bumps, avoid works and have really big mouths. It’s easy to see that around your work place. We had an Indian team leader who brought in his Indian mates and protect that lazy bump for all he could while not doing much at all. This is why India is still a technologically backward country. Look at what China did in short 30 years, just have a look now!!! India will never be a superpower because all they are good for is talk, talk and talk, no actions! Change your culture and work ethics!!!

25. # Desiguy on 02 Jun 2009 at 1:35 am

    i agree with James Kally ,even thought i am Indian living in us.

    India MAYBE can be power, but superpower, i don’t think so. not possible at all.

26. # Nitin on 02 Jun 2009 at 2:47 am

    I dont know where you read that India is technological backward country.Do you really use the chinese version of google? Because if you put these two keywords ” india Technology” in google search , the whole world gets exzat opposite of what your claiming!
    India is the second largest english speaking country in the world population wise! And thats why the world prefers India over china when it comes to technology outsorcing.And this has been proved!we dont need to change anything, the way we are going is good enough and we are happy with results how our country us performing in technology/IT field!
    If there is any one who needs to change,than its you chiniese , You need to stop imitating big brands(making copies of them) what you are famous for, You need to improve the quality of your products(famous for use and throw products), Gain trust of global market(No one trusts chiniese medicines).And most Important lear a freking language(english).
    If you would conqure this short comming of yours than we Indian would not even dream of overtaking china.But as these things do realy exist.we are 100% confident that we will overtake china for sure

27. # nisar on 02 Jun 2009 at 1:05 pm

    Indian thought that they are superiors, is the root of disturbance in this region, China is a great country of course but India and Pakistan should fight with each other to put back your nations to stone age, is there in India any fool still thinking that they will conquer the Pakistan or china or the same thought in Pakistan that they can defeat India is a bull shit we should accept the reality and treat each other equally no one is superior than we all will put our nation towards prosperity and development

28. # Nitin on 02 Jun 2009 at 8:21 pm

    @Desiguy

    For your Information.India has its GDP doing more better than expected,Overcomming the economical crisis,First time we had foreigners migrating to India to take over jobs.I know it can be difficult for you.You went to USA thinking that things wont change over here in India.But for your surprise THey did change and let me tell you that India Is gona replace USA as a superpower very soon and China first of all and I have explained how and in what way if your read my very earlier posts.
    Indian are more skilled workers compare to americans.And the Fact that you can employ 8 Indians for salary of one American, Outsourcing is at a Boom.Secondly China Is famous for its low quality goods and fake makes,China has been humiliated for its medicines and fake milk and so one.Third, No grip over English,thats the main drop back in International market.
    So its 100% sure that the Next superpowers on earth are gona be USSR ,India & China(If they work on their short commings)

29. # Desiguy on 04 Jun 2009 at 4:36 am

    @ Nitin

    one thing i forget to mention, that As jobs are coming more into India, the Indian POPULATION is also Booming, much more than Indian Economy.

    what about that?

30. # Ragala on 04 Jun 2009 at 1:19 pm

    China cannot dare to attack India. Indian navy plays a key role in a war. Dont forget that 80% of chinese Oil and other supplies has to pass through Indian ociean. Where Indian navy is very strong we can block oil supplies.Stratagic Advantage. Chinese navy has numbers but they are out dated. And even they dont have a Aircraft carrier.

    Though I dont support war. We have plenty options.

    The other white idiot said Indians are Lazy. He may be insecure.

31. # Lee on 06 Jun 2009 at 5:01 am

    Reality has it that we cannot be certain as to if India and China will go to war in the near future. It is all politics, and the state of circumstances in each country, its relations and the impact of the global world upon both countries.
    Seriously, China does not see India as a threat. Albeit they have outstanding issues to be solved, China is highly focused on expanding its economy, whilst balancing its military might on the parallel. India while a democracy, has too many old out dated politicians who are keeping India at their pace. India can benefit greatly by updating its military might, but most monies, while shown on budget, are swindled amongst political groups for their favour.
    The key point being, which country has more arsenal. China definately. In this day and age, it is better equipment that will win the war.

32. # Anant on 07 Jun 2009 at 4:27 pm

    History proved stronger countries always conquered weaker countries. Peace prevailed wherever countries failed to assess their over strengths and sometimes the potential of the enemy country to defend. This is probably the boat in which India, Pakistan and China sail for now.

33. # Angie on 07 Jun 2009 at 6:28 pm

    India , please change. Be honest and sincere and speak less.
    Action speaks louder than words.

34. # Sansky on 08 Jun 2009 at 6:51 am

    A possible related post is here,the discussion is about how china is controlling India’s expansion and is becoming the regional player.

    http://enewsreport.blogspot.com/2009/06/chinese-string-of-pearls-theory.html

35. # Steven on 09 Jun 2009 at 7:59 am

    If you believe that India is fairer society, a country that commoner holds power. Then you need to tell me why the communist in India is never wipe out, just not long ago they even attack poll station in india during election. The continue existence of communist is due to the sole fact of the poor landless farmer, who their children can be raped without ways to fight back because the corrupted Judicial System. Film like Slump Dog is the reality of devoloping nation. China is a poor nation, but the condition of the people is much better compare with India. The countryside where poverty concertrated, people still have access toward education. No need to taught them self how to read. Yes, most chinese can’t read English, but they at least have the ability of reading their indengenous language. There is absolutely no need for a labour to speak English. For the many Indian are so proud of their nation’s wealth, you need to read Forbes(if you know what it is). Just read the amount of wealthest people in the world India have and compare to the commoner in the Slumdog, this is your national reality, a class system that is deep rooted in your heart, being pround of the wealthest and ignoring the common pauper who suffered. 4 Billionaires in the top 25 wealth rank… Lakshmi Mittal, who own $32 billion USD, then look at the pauper who earn $30 a month… There is no such a contrast of income in China…

36. # G.Vinod on 11 Jun 2009 at 12:47 pm

    Developments are happening in India inspite of corruption and other problems. It’s not fair
    to say that we speak/boast more and keep idling.
    The majority of Indians work hard for their living inspite of tough conditions. If there is
    a change in the political system then India will definitely become a superpower in future
    and hence there is no point in always blaming the common Indian for everything.
    By the way who in this world is honest???

37. # Jewden on 11 Jun 2009 at 9:25 pm

    1. Resources are getting scarse on the Planet.
    2. Human Poplulation is expading.
    3. Fight for resources will intensify in future.
    4. Batteles are fought now on oil in years to come will be on Water resources.

    Seeing all above there is no point to belive that there will be now war between Indian and China in future along side spare the Pakistan.

    Indians your military planers are aware of this and working on it. No wonder your military is palning to add quality material.

    Behold the 21st century.

38. # Desiguy on 12 Jun 2009 at 2:18 am

    @ Steven,,

    all these problems are created by some people, and moreover, India has a weak government, so they can’t even end these problems.

    by the way, i agree with you, about Lakshmi Mittal and pauper stuff.

39. # Chanakya on 13 Jun 2009 at 12:58 am

    The biggest difference between India and China in the areas of economy , millitary power , infrastructure as exists to today will get wiped out by the most important factor , that is , Individualism. China is a controlled society and in the direction it moves is guided by a group of people belonged to a certain doctorine and ideas. The people of India on the other hand has better personal freedom and they have the option to grow according to their ability . Apparantly , the Indian cities , streets and villages look clumsy compared to those in China today . But indivual innovations and entreprenureships are plenty in India , and this will be the deciding factor between the two countries , in the long run.

    Millitarily I do not think that any one of them would dare a full scale war with the other . It will be suicidal for both.

40. # boon_007 on 13 Jun 2009 at 2:04 am

    truth be told, both india and china cannot afford war!! both the countries are too busy trying to revamp their infrastructures !! both countries are trying to improve the living conditions of some of the worlds poorest people !!! so, let me just conclude this discussion about military might that the indians and the chinese are never going to go to war !!! they may try to contain each others economic might, but i’m sure as hell that they are never going to war !!! and yeah, about pakistan, dudes, its high time you guys start accepting that jihad is not only a problem for india but for your own existence as well!!

    P.S. :- i’m just a crazy indian trying to make a living with a lot of sex thrown in between.

41. # Raghav on 13 Jun 2009 at 7:53 am

    No developing country would like to spend huge amounts in just saving few miles of its land. It applies to both India & China. The relations between India and China are good. To improve this more, China should stop military support to a country in which democracy can’t stand and ignited with religious spreading. The problem with the other neighbour is: The goverment has no control over the country, military and intelligence. Everyone is on their own. My all sympathy for that government. Time for China to review its strategy to support the other nation. Any support to any country is fine if it is used for the prosperity of its people and objectionable for military aggression. Same way India should streamline its strategy towards the Tibet issue, which has already started. This would improve the relation more. History also shows the relation between British-India & China were in a good condition. The same will continue, I strongly believe.

42. # king on 16 Jun 2009 at 11:07 am

    James Kally,
    China has had more than 30 yrs, it started in the 70s. india just started in 1991. thats 40 yrs vs 18 yrs, meaning india has had less than half the amount of time to change.

    Steven,
    Dont get the idea that poverty and social inequality dont exsist in china. Chinese farmers struggle, and even if indian poor have lil chance of appealment, the chinese have none. When those massive dams were bein built in china, the farmers who lived there were just shoved out w/ very little and insufficent help and given no finacial assitance. If they protested, they were locked up and held prisoners for life. Also, India is improving its public educational system vastly, since 1994, they have opened up 160,000 new schools.

    George Bush,
    First off, i want to say that the Huns are turkic people, who are Eurasian peoples residing in northern, central and western Eurasia, not orientals.

    According to you, for all of history, the indians have been lackeys to whites…
    I would like to remind u that from the ancient era all the way up to the 1700s, India dominated the west technolgically, scientifically, economically, miltaristicly, and basically overall owned the west. The Indian share of world GDP from the year 0 to the 1800s was never below 25%. Even during the height of the Roman Empire, india was at 33%, while Rome was 21.5%.
    When “whites” were drawin stick figures on caves, and pointlessly and savagely killing each other, the indians were designing massive and sophisticated planned cities, with the worlds 1st sewer systems and boasted 1 of the worlds highest standards of living. Also, ancient India was the only ancient civilization in the world where no weapons have been found, obviously showing they had their heads turned in the right direction unlike the rest of the world…
    While “whites” were burning “heretics” and killing jews in an effort to “wipe” out the black plague, indians were achieving scientific superiority over the world. In the 4th century, indian astronomers calculated the exact circumference of the world, and the exact length of each day. 1200 yrs later…the europeans finally figured out the world was round.
    Thanks to the “lazy bum” indians, we no longer are stuck using the redundant and poorly designed roman numeral system, instead we use the indian mathematical system of 1,2,3…Not only that, you can thank the “stupid”, “ass-licking” indians for coming with, on the whole, algebra, trignometry, geometry, and calculus.

    I could go on and on…but im gonna stop here. basically i wanted to show that it was possible and that indians have the potential to achieve great things, which many of u on here highly doubt.

43. # Yang Lu Mishra on 18 Jun 2009 at 8:53 pm

    Please guys, go throug the history books - there was a heavenly relationship between India and China - more than 3000 years of good relationship - particularly China with Kalinga. What a beautiful relationship - why we only talk about war - to create a bitter feeling among us? Anyway, look at the similarities and accept the differences - you can be a great citizen of this planet. I am an Australian but from Chinese and Indian (Kalinga) race and my parents always encourage me to learn good things than war. I am only 16 years and curious to know about the views of different people - well its bit confusing here.

44. # siddh on 19 Jun 2009 at 9:49 pm

    To say the truth as India is acquiring sophisticated weapons from Israel , France , Russia and U.S.A , it is not that easy for the Chinese to defeat the Indians. India is a raising super-power, it is trying to beef up its army , by raising both the manpower, weapons, and increasing the spending on military budget. To prove my statements on the Indian army is true, you guys can go to the Wikipedia and look through the details. The current spending budget of Indian army is
    $ 32 billion dollars.

45. # Desiguy on 21 Jun 2009 at 7:57 pm

    @ siddh

    i agree with you, but we guys should also look at Indian Economy.

    most of the Indian economy depend on western world.

    Indeed, India may be rising superpower, but just in Indian villages, where there is no water, no electricity and government don’t give damm about them.

46. # Nitin on 21 Jun 2009 at 8:53 pm

    @Desiguy
    Indian economy is well placed, and for your inforamtion western Economy deepnds upon Indias Economy.If India’s economy would depend on west than even India would have faced economical crisis with the west.
    Your Views clearly tell me that what ever your saying is ur perception.You are not that deep into world politics and economy.
    I had visted china in 2005.And for your information small towns in China are worst than villages of India.The spending on Infastructure is done only in big cites like Shangai, Beiging ,Fuzhou etc.Small are so dirty and un-planed,No hygenic enviroment, No public toilets.No one who can speak english.andI can go on and on
    Or else you can visit any small town in India, like mohali , Bhavnagar solapur,akluj,pen etc You will at least find one Mall and one multiplex theater in there.
    I can also tell that you have not visted India in recent 5-6 years.
    Please get update with your facts and watch news or read newspaper.

47. # TOSwami on 22 Jun 2009 at 7:06 pm

    Nitin is such a comedian. He can find speckles in other’s underpant but fail to see the plank in his own eyes. If India is so freaking well-off, it would be ranked so low in everything by UN, in some areas even worse off than Sub-sahara countries. It would not put under credit watch by S&P.

48. # Desiguy on 23 Jun 2009 at 2:19 am

    @ Nitin, look dude, like i said before that i don’t doubt on whatever India has achieved till today, but don’t you think we can improve much more than now.

    i accept that i may be not that deep into world politics and economy, but i have my own brain, from where i can think and my own eyes, from where i can see clearly.

    Just look at the population, and look that corrupted dirty government of India, Moreover Just look at many Indians living in India, who are begging on streets.

    And why r u so much proud about that , India is a country, where people know English.

    For your information, let me tell you that we did not not learn English, But we were forced to learn , when the British colonize India.

    China, Russia, France and many other popular countries don’t give damm about English.
    Did you read just the news from Times of India, that some part of India are like in African countries.

49. # Nitin on 23 Jun 2009 at 2:30 am

    Forget about comparing China.Think about your own country (canada)
    Unemployment rate
    Canada - 8.4%
    India -7.2%

    Even tho India has a population of 1,147,995,904 which is aprox 34 times of canada(33,212,696) It still maintains a low unemployment rate than Canada.
    Isnt it a shame?

50. # JB on 23 Jun 2009 at 4:58 pm

    suresh ! The Buddha was born in Lumbini Nepal . Pls speak the truth !

51. # Abyon 24 Jun 2009 at 7:06 pm

    @ Nitin - “Forget about comparing China.Think about your own country (canada)
    Unemployment rate
    Canada - 8.4%
    India -7.2%”

    You cannot really compare unemployment statistics between Canada and India. In Canada a person would choose unemployment over a low wage job, so that he/she can take the benefit of social security. In India, the option is either employment or starvation. Additionally, in India even a person whose earnings cannot afford two square meals a day would still be considered employed, as per GOI figures.

52. # wekulo on 25 Jun 2009 at 12:11 am

    angie ,love your comment that’s the best thing i’ve ever seen here .

53. # A S on 25 Jun 2009 at 11:53 pm

    @ JB from belgium

    go and read history…

    there was nothing called nepal when Buddha was born….It was the kingdom of Indian King…..

    Nepal, Sril Lanka, Pakistan have the traditional and historical places of Indian culture…80% population of Nepal is Hindu…..

    there was nothing called India, region was known as Hindustan…

    most of the people in sri lanka are Buddist….

    forget about Pakistan, we never had Islam in this region, pakis are our fellow converts and we have given them land to live…

54. # vinci on 26 Jun 2009 at 8:09 pm

    @ steve
    u r from america,does Americans have an history to be proud of ?

    if u go back to history of america ,now so called american ancestors(british) have killed red indian tribes conqured america !!!!!

    then attacked migrated french in america ,u know why did france gift the statue of liberty to americans ?….so that it reminds french people they were kicked out of america and they will give the right answer to americans at the right time (infuture)

    u know why godfather actor MARLIN BRANDO didnt accept oscar ?

    u say about caste system in india…why do catholics hate protestants and christians hate jews ? is that something similar to caste system ?

    opression of the black community for centuaries so on but u couldnt hold it any further ..now see the blacks are emerging as most successful americans obama,tigerwoods,lewis hamilton,william sisters in tennis

    but for sure indians speak far better english than the peole from non englsih speaking countries

    @steve wake up !! stop dreaming..see the reality,if u dont want to see ….then go with the saying ‘IGNORANCE IS BLISS’
    jai hind

55. # Desi Lorde on 28 Jun 2009 at 7:38 am

    There are many people here I’d agree with. But Steven, being an American myself, I’d like to give you a lesson on Communism. Look at China or the former Soviet Union.. India’s democracy never tasted communism. As for the “What about Laxmi Mittal who has $32 Bln USD and the next guy who lives on $30.00 per day” that’s Capitalism, which is running out in the United States (socialized health care among many other examples). The guy making $30.00 per month, doesn’t live off government welfare, he feeds his kids with that $30 dollar/month salary. Onto the topic at hand, I personally believe that China would have an upper hand should a war break out, conventional or otherwise. But they’d stand a better chance than USA.

56. # Captain V. on 28 Jun 2009 at 10:05 pm

    @ Desi Lorde - “The guy making $30.00 per month, doesn’t live off government welfare, he feeds his kids with that $30 dollar/month salary.”

    Which must be quite a matter of shame for social welfare schemes. The guy couldn’t do much further than feeding his kids two malnutritious meals at a $30/day salary. For homes, they can take residences in sidewalks, abandoned pipes or slums. For the rest, the kids can work, sell newspapers or beg. As for schooling, what good is that anyway?

57. # world on 29 Jun 2009 at 12:23 am

    War between India and China or India and Pakistan should be fine even if it goes nuclear. India with a population of 1.3 billion can afford to lose 200 to 300 million and still be around and exist after a nuclear war.
    India should be lot more aggressive and not be afraid of a nuclear war.

58. # Desiguy on 03 Jul 2009 at 5:04 am

    @ World,

    it seems like you don’t live in India, that’s why you r saying all this.

    Is there any other way you can think of reducing India population rather than throwing nuclear.
    There is.

    think about it!

59. # Amshith M on 03 Jul 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Guys, Guys, Guys!!!!! The critical point of each and every country over its economic social and political development is its own security. Without its defense being strong there always is a danger either from its neighbors or their allies. So I really feel sorry to tell u people that INDIAN DEFENSE CAPABILITIES ARE TOO WEAK IN COMPARISON WITH OUR NORTHERN NEIGHBOR CHINA. We all know the fact that INDIAN DEFENSE has miles to reach the US MILITARY CAPABILITIES. The following are the reasons for the FAILURE of INDIAN DEFENSE.

    1) There is no prominent research taking place (as compared to developed nations) over our defense. As a result we need to purchase the equipments from other nations. This results to loss of wealth to some extent.
    2) The budget what we keep for defense does not even meet our requirements as of now for even 300 days.
    3) We even do not have allies who can support us independently except for Russia. Even Russia does not wants us to become a well settled force in the world. This is a Fact!!!
    4) Our citizens who are well educated having Double degrees or Doctorates either migrate from our country to other place or find a Fat Salary jobs in some reputed companies here. As a result we find second grade people working on our defense. We may find well educated people working in our defense bureaucracy and I am sure it is like a drop from a sea.

    So what do U guys think???
    How can we resolve such problems and take India to a secure zone as U.S. stands today???

60. # singhjon 04 Jul 2009 at 7:12 pm

    i just hope that BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) can progress to become more of a union that works togather on matters of economy and military etc. These 4 rising nations, if joined togather can change the face of the world greatly. Ofcourse this wont be a comunist union as some might think because india is the worlds largest democracy and theres no way communism can work in india, its just not possible with the way the society works. Conflict between india and china will only be disasterous for both nations. This article does not have accurate information about both nations as of today. india has the worlds fastest cruise missile (BrahMos, co-built with russia)which is three times faster then the united states tomahawk at a speed of 2.8 mach. indias army is up to date and well equiped. India is developing its own planes, HAL tejas, MCA, and also cooperating with russia to build a 5th generation stelth fighter while also having plans for its own 5th generation fighter. The indians are also developing their own aircraft carriers. Now even with all these new developments, i can’t help but wonder how much money the corrupt gov’t will get out of this and how much help the hundreds of thousands of poor people will get. lets just say military is only good if all the nations work togather to protect the people of earth and not fight amongst themselves. lets work togather for a peaceful tomorow and forget the bickering and differences of yesterday.

61. # dean on 08 Jul 2009 at 3:50 am

    If india and china cooperate on a stragetic level, this is our century. If we war with each other it will be another western century. Which scenario best suits us? Westerners know the answer to this question, do we?

62. # Sansky on 10 Jul 2009 at 7:51 pm

    India want peace in the region and I guess so do China. Peace is required to have stability in the region, and the stability increases the efficiency of growth and development.

    But China is not doing good with the world. Exporting cheap quality, fake products. Imitating brand labels and selling them which reduces brand name and their profit as well. Pushing toxic substance in the market. For e.g milk contaminated with melamine was exported to all over the world. Melamine is added to make milk look richer in protein in lab tests. Melamine is used in plastics. Not only this but recently Nigerian and Indian officials have caught China exporting fake medicinal drugs to Africa having “Made in India” tag. what can be more alarming than this. I am wondering whats going on in China’s head.

    http://enewsreport.blogspot.com/2009/07/chinas-new-weapon.html

    The articles talks about the melamine incident which infected 300,000+ people in China itself. How china has developed a mobile to be used by terrorists in India. I will call it China’s new weapon.

63. # sridar rao on 11 Jul 2009 at 8:46 am

    if the war between india and china, india will loose econami, heavy lose of arm force,and amunition and infrastructure,
    we dont know how the war goes,and how long. what is the expenditure, after the war what will be the balance we may have.(conciquences)

64. # Parminder Grewal on 12 Jul 2009 at 5:24 pm

    I am new to this argument but I would like to put forth a few points:

    1. China is militarily superior to India , agreed. But, China and India will not go to war for a simple reason: If India goes down, it may take China down with it (term coined during the cold war M.A.D.)

    Scenario 1 : Full scale nuclear war
    Even if China does have a superior nuclear arsenal, it does not have any system to shoot down ballistic missiles and last I checked, India has second strike capabilities. An Indian missile landing in Shanghai, Beijing or the other financial centres will be catastrophic for China’s booming economy. So India may get owned in a war, but the China that emerges will be weak and may not be able to compete with the west. Further more, Indian navy is a blue water navy(capable of deep sea operations far away from home base) while the chinese navy is not that well experienced in such operations. We could cut off oil supplies to China by dominating the Indian Ocean. Besides, in such a conflict, I assume China will be the aggressor.India will have support of the west, and being much more Islamic than china, we may have the support of the Arab world as well. So, it is not just military hardware that counts.

    Scenario 2:Border Skirmish : Here China may win but the effects will not be as catastrophic. It may be a loss of face and wound to the pride of India, but in the long run it will just spur India to the route of militarisation.

    2. There have been some comments of Indians being lazy. Ill remind you , its all about the individual. Just because you met one Indian who is lazy, that doesnt mean all Indians are lazy. And the west cannot lecture us on the Indian caste system. Are you forgetting racism that is so deeply embedded in your own society? Even on this site there have been plenty of racist comments(the latest racist slur to emerge is slumdog, did not think that could back fire).

    3. On the point of “Indians licking white ass” (george bush , I thought Canada was multi cultural, so now should I say all canadians are racist?? since generalization is the norm here), King has answered that question on my behalf. All Id like to add to this is that while the western world was crawling in hides, Indian scholars had composed some of the most vast and profound texts on l spirituality, way of life, sex, medicine etc. So dont give me shit about India being ruled by the west. The only reason that happened was that India is a heterogenous populace. While this may have it pitfalls, it has many advantages. It is this very reason that India cannot have a dictator and will always be democratic(unlike Pakistan which is united in its religion and abhorrence of India). BTW, many of Indian traditional medicines are being patented by American companies in this 21st century. Stuff we know for about medicine for approx 3 millenia, the west is claiming to discover today. The Indian govt has a dept to fight against such claims. I could go on an on about Indian achievements.

    AND BTW IN A DEBATE U DONT TELL THE OTHER PERSON TO TALK LESS AND DO MORE. IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF THE DEBATE AND VINDICATES THE OTHER PERSON’S STANCE.

    4. Lastly, I would like to say that the more important question today is that will climate change leave us capable of waging meaningless wars against each other.

65. # Alex on 12 Jul 2009 at 6:23 pm

    I am Chinese , I grew up with a lot of my india friends back in Southeast Asia and still have a lot of memory with them .I don’t think Chinease and India people hate each other. all has to do with those Western country and other who selling weapon to China and India , It will be their benefit to see war between these two country .
    I wish there wasn’t war back in 1962 .They are great and lovely people . We shouldn’t entertain those Westerner , We should learn from history . I am glad to see people live in both country are getting better and better ,richer and richer,
    one day people from both side will realize how beautiful and peaceful our eastern land it is .

66. # sumitaggarwal on 13 Jul 2009 at 8:39 am

    china wants to dominate in the region but it is getting the tough challanges from another asian gaint india. In case war broke between india and china over any issue like arunachal pradesh india eastern state & which china claims its own. Beside china having a strategic importance with it proxy pakistan on western border of india.india has the abilty to give good response to china .
    we all indians stand with our government.
    vande matram

67. # Roy on 13 Jul 2009 at 12:38 pm

    Title: Look to India. By: Johnson, Paul, Forbes, 00156914, 9/5/2005, Vol. 176, Issue 4
    Database: Academic Search Premier

    Regardless of who is in power, Europe is becoming a small player in the 21st century. The 25th International Population Conference, which met at Tours, France in July, made some significant points as to where power will be increasingly exercised in the new century.

    By 2050 the EU’s 25 member nations will have a total population of only 461 million, compared with the U.S.’ 420 million. If you subtract Britain from the European total, the U.S. population will be significantly higher. The makeup of the European population will be older, with far fewer in the active workforce. It is more difficult to compute output per capita half a century hence, but if present trends continue, the GNP of the U.S. will be three times that of Europe.

    In contrast, by 2050 India will have the largest population in the world–1.6 billion inhabitants versus China’s 1.4 billion, with India’s population being much younger. Although much of the Islamic world is growing fast in demographic terms–a matter of serious import for southern Europe in particular–India by midcentury most likely will have a greater number of souls than the entire Muslim world. As for India’s economic potential, I regard that as almost infinite over the long term.

    Since China threw off the horrific and destructive legacy of Mao Tse-tung’s primitive Marxism, it has done remarkably well, on the whole. It has, however, tended to concentrate unduly on old smokestack industries, with the object of gaining quick returns through cheap exports. Needless to say, this has had appalling consequences for the environment, which China will rue desperately in decades to come. China, with estimates of about 20 million convicts, is heavily dependent on slave labor, as well as on the labor of underpaid ex-peasants who are still pouring into the industrialized coastal belt. China is not investing enough in high technology, with the exception of the military, and is thus making the same mistakes the Soviet Union made. Indeed, the differences between the new China and the old U.S.S.R. are more superficial and visible than fundamental. The entire Chinese apparatus, political and economic, looks fragile to me.

    India, however, with its educated strata fluent in English, is leapfrogging over the industrial epoch into the advanced communications era. Bangalore, India’s capital of high technology and outsourcing facilities, is a city fully at home in the 21st century, whereas Shanghai, despite its spectacular skyscrapered skyline, is a phenomenon rooted in the 20th century. India looks–and is–astonishingly old, but its futuristic sinews, though often invisible to the untrained eye, are becoming formidable. As things stand, India will soon have more English-speaking computer operators than the rest of the world put together, and it will be organically linked to all the advanced economies.

    Given the climate of freedom that prevails in India, we can expect that it will be producing ideas, inventions and new processes of its own before long. China will not be able to match this until it dismantles its communist system–or lets it collapse. To have a truly innovative economy, freedom of thought and expression must be encouraged. That is the most important lesson of the modern age. India has this precious tradition, as well as the rule of law, both of which are legacies (I am proud to say) of British rule. The rule of law is essential to long-term investment on the largest possible scale.

    Counterbalance
    India ought to also figure largely in President Bush’s calculations for another reason: It is a counterbalance on two important fronts. India will prove invaluable as a counterbalance to China if China becomes aggressive, especially toward Taiwan. China has weaknesses in central Asia–especially in Tibet, its much-oppressed and rebellious colony. Tibet, for many reasons, has closer affinities to India and is much closer geographically to Delhi than to Beijing.

    India is also a counterbalance to the Muslim world. It is an example to its neighbors, Pakistan and Bangladesh. As India’s standard of living rises and India takes its place at the world’s head table, the inhabitants of these two neighboring countries are bound to ask, “What’s holding us back, while India prospers?” The answer will come, as it increasingly comes to Arab lands: Islamic fundamentalism.

    All these trends can be to America’s advantage. But they must be cultivated and reinforced by intelligent U.S. policies and sophisticated diplomacy.

    ~~~~~~~~

    By Paul Johnson

68. # rajat on 13 Jul 2009 at 7:34 pm

    james kally and desiguy,
    both of you have got wrong idea about india.probably you dont have proper data….so before writing go and check.INDIA’s GDP is twice than your so called developed countries….more over look at economic crisis that is prevailing in your developed countries and look at india.

69. # Ag on 14 Jul 2009 at 5:30 am

    This is a NEWS from BBC ” China VS India ”

    http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/5181024.stm

70. # IndiaSitDownNiceDoggy on 15 Jul 2009 at 9:01 pm

    India is, what can I say, a land full of people unwilling to work as a team and take up a challenge. Most of them are false patriots and would quit it instantly if given the chance. Their education is extremely bookish, impractical and boast much hyped engineering degrees, yet rely heavily upon foreign technologies (such as Russia) to reach a level of technical expertise that is still way below the standards of developed countries. So that means if a truly hyped Brahmos missile is fired at an enemy, chances of it hitting an enemy (if the enemy does not fire back at the missile) are only 50% because you might see the poor engineering skills at work by the Indians. Take into consideration the anti-missile shields that more advanced countries have, and India will find itself in possession of technology that is obsolete and that has sucked the life blood of the Indian economy. Now war may be in favor of India in one way or another, because it might help reduce the massive population and help rebuild of whatever small part is left of the country….majority of India can then go to China and some land grabs for Pakistan too for expansion of territory. One thing India has not learnt is that weapons are designed to kill, not to boast, and that is why India loses, and will continue to lose in the distant future and for the next 10,000 years to come, until it is swallowed by the oceans.

71. # G.Vinod on 17 Jul 2009 at 12:52 pm

    @ IndiaSitDownNiceDoggy
    India has not grabbed other country’s land and the population also did not come down due to
    war, in the past. Yes the weapons are designed to kill the enemy and not to kill innocent children
    and women as your (U.S) army does in Iraq and Afghanistan. First solve your mess in Iraq and
    Afghanistan before making unnecessary comments against Indians. Stop worrying about Indians
    and concentrate on your economic recovery. Beware, your next enemies (North Korea/Iran) are
    preparing for a war against you and hence protect yourself from being swallowed by fire.

72. # Roy on 17 Jul 2009 at 1:07 pm

    America waste billions of dollars to develop technology which inferior to Russia and India just gets them from Russia. So who is more clever here?

73. # Parminder Grewal on 17 Jul 2009 at 7:38 pm

    The moderator should consider deleting the post ( IndiaSitDownNiceDoggy ) as the id is offensive. Argue, please do not insult unnecessarily as any jackass can insult. All this will come down to then, is a swearing competition.

    To all those who agree that the post should be deleted, please say so in your posts.

    All I can say to the poor soul who wrote this is, check your facts before blurting out nonsense. I see you have some trouble checking your facts. Ill help you

    1. Go to Start
    2. Click on Internet Explorer.
    3. Type carefully in the address bar this link
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India
    4. Press Enter.

    Here you will find a lot of GENUINE information about India (unlike statistics about brahmos, India grabbing other lands etc that you randomly stated).

74. # G.Vinod on 22 Jul 2009 at 7:41 am

    @Parminder Grewal
    Yes I agree with you.

75. # PJ on 22 Jul 2009 at 5:03 pm

    I am a chinese living in the US. I visited New Delhi and Mumbai last year. I saw the skyscrapers in Mumbai but also the slumps next to them. The indian economy is booming, however, my indian friends, is it too early to mention the word “superpower”. I think it is sarcarstic that while every indian is talking about india becoming a superpower, on tv, on the web and basically everywhere, there are deformed kids begging on the streets, people pee and poo wherever as they wish, illiteracy is way too high. China, in no mean is going to become a superpower anytime soon either. She has her own problems, for instance, corruption. Yet if you make a comparison between Beijing and Delhi, the difference is quite obvious. Beijing is far more modern. If you pay a visit to Shanghai, you would found yourself in a city that is comparable to any of world’s metropolis such as New York and Tokyo.

    Put your subjectivity and patriotism aside, let’s face it. China and India will both play big roles in the world forum. However, the US will remain as the world’s lone true superpower in the next 50 years.

76. # John on 23 Jul 2009 at 6:04 pm

    @ Roy
    Relying too much on foreign weapon export is not a sound long term strategy. You need to have strong domestic R&D programmes (though not as excessive as the Americans). What are you going to do in a lengthy conflict? Gamble on the Russians playing nice and continuing resupplying the Indian military with equipments?

77. # true talk on 24 Jul 2009 at 6:10 pm

    It,s nice to see that people actually are talking interest in military pride and superiority though it is not true that in the future these countries will not have war with each other or different nations. It is inevitable that conflict will arise sometime in near or distant future in the region.Changing topic for a moment it is not true that India is a follower of the west. Though it is true that if India comes on top economically and militarily over China. It would be better for the western world.Though frankly being an Indian I don’t see India in the commanding position in the next 10 years or so but a 47 something percent of 1.17billion is the youth of India meaning there are about 549 900 000 people between the ages of 0-18 in India as to china which has now a aging population after 25 years of one child policy. Though the youth population of Indian is slightly bigger than china.The increasing rate of children of which infants are born is unlikely to slow in India because the government knows that population could be advantage economy wise as well as military.

78. # Deepanjan on 26 Jul 2009 at 12:45 pm

    There can be many facts about India & China’s economical and military might. But the fact that though India & US are good parters and lot of postive potitical, technological & economical developments happens between these two countries, but it will be grossly mistaken if somebody thinks that in case of war between US & China overs regions of Taiwan , India will be with US & provide military aid/support,& US can use India as a base. US cannot expect any thing more than verbal support from India. No wise country will bring an unwanted war just because US needs some control over the region. India is competing with China to have a ocntrol in South East & East Asia, American presence will just add one more competitor to region.

79. # Ag on 26 Jul 2009 at 7:42 pm

    US and Westerner are excellent game player , If India and China keep playing their game , sooner these two Buttha country will be disappear from the earth , they both equaly has a ability to destroy each other , no zero sum here. if you look at Idia media ,TV and people on the net these days it sound like they are going to start the war , because big country like we ( US ) and Russia are providing them whatever weapon they want , Hey it doesn’t mean on your side . look at Russia these days , they are doing war game with China too , All they want is weapon money from both newly wealthy country like India and China , without that their weapon industry sooner going to be collapse. they might even wish you two go to war so their arm industry will booming again , they are not care about the life of you people. Beside that China and India are not thousand miles away , once the war boke out everybody in the region will suffer .
    look back and learn from the history , India was used to bigger then today ,who did it and who divided them to became couple of more small country in the region ? Everybody knows It was westerner , they don’t want to see these Asia country one day will compete with them , more powerful then westerner .
    Think about that , let say the war broke out between two country and no matter which side win , there will be third and fourth war again. we should be glad only fewer people and soldiers died in last war between two country , this time least will be millions .

    You people, We should talk good thing about each other and do our best to make world safer . let arm industry collapse , let enjoy each other beauty and caltures far or near.

80. # vincent on 01 Aug 2009 at 9:15 pm

    I agree India and China are both capable of being superpowers of the future. China may have a slight lead in terms of money, manpower and machine. India on the other hand has the bigger potential. Let me explain about potential.

    In any war over the last 30 years and pertaining to the future (post 2009) a war between two or more nations has to be calculated based on perceived threat or POTENTIAL. In Iraq for example, the perceived threat of chemical weapons made the Americans cautious about attacking an unknown area without due diligence, thus causing time lag or delay and therefore letting some Iraqis escape. In the Russia - Gerogia conflict of early 2009, the Russians knew of no potential in Georgia for air to surface missiles other than sole dependency on Radar (which were knocked down by the second day) therefore giving the Russians pure superiority in Airspace. Had there been some potential as India has in its Air-Defense systems then China would have to think at alternative uses such as land forces and or sea forces. Then comes the issue of Brahamos missiles in India, China would be anhialated with their second, sometimes third tier navy.

    India has the largest accumulation of engineers in the world, the fundamental basis of potential threat is from Engineering, Scinece and Computing for 2009 and beyond, China is aware of this and is very calculatingly quiet about the threat India is to China, not as an aggressor but as a defensive adversary.

    Should India attack China, just the potential threat of Nuclear Missiles in the arsenal of China would make India stop cold in its tracks, since India is very passive, I dont think they would be aggressors. Should China be the aggressor and have to face Indian missiles at sea or land (brahamos) then China would take great naval losses and severe land loss as they would have to cover a lot more boundry than India.

    Finally, China and India both realize their own place in the world and both will have to be competitors but partners or else both will face devestation if they do go to war. Also as is with other wars breaking out, the United States, Russia and Europe will not allow 40% of the world to be at war with each other without joining sides or at the very least ensuring a dialogue for stoppage. This is how I see it playing out. If China is the aggressor, India wins because no matter how much India loses, China will cease to exist as the China we know today. Communist China will be freed by the west and Indian forces should China be the aggressor so I think China will not attack first. If India is to be the aggressor and China faces smaller than expected losses, India will be a third tier nation for a long time, barely at par with Pakistan. Should India be the aggressor and inflict huge losses onto China then India may actually become the superpower it wants to, this is why I favor India over China, China can not take any chances as being the aggressor without the rest of the world joining in and reducing China to bits and pieces. India wins in my opinion!

81. # Aby on 01 Aug 2009 at 9:25 pm

    @ Roy
    I’d say America is smarter than India on this one. Expensive or not, they develop their own technology instead of relying overtly on imports. As Mr. John put it above, relying too much on military imports from foreign powers is an unsound military strategy.

    @ PJ
    Fifty years is a very long period to make such a judgement. It took less than a decade after World War 2 to dismantle the British Empire. You would have been laughed at, if you suggested in 1940 that British Empire would be a tiny island off the coast of Europe in 15 years.

82. # John on 02 Aug 2009 at 7:23 pm

    @vincent
    I have to disagree with some of your points.

    Firstly the russians did not attain air superiority throughout the Georgian war. If anything that conflict demonstrated a lack coordination and communication, especially with the ground force. 3-4 su-25 were downed, aswell as a tu-22 bomber sent in on suicidal recon runs due to lack of UAV. That is not to say the equipments were inferior, merely that the strategy/execution need polishing.

    Secondly you seem to have factored out the secondary artillery corp of the PLA, which is just as important, if not more so than the land/sea force, especially in pre-emptive strikes against radar/SAM installations, allowing partial aerial penetration. Granted most are currently pointed at Taiwan, but the majority (numbering several hundred) have the range to reach India. India AFAIK cannot match this strike capability.

    Forgive me for not buying into the hype of the Brahmos. It certainly is deadly to ships, but in the context of a Sino-Indian naval skirmish, its impact will most likely be minimal. Let’s assume all the rumours about a Chinese anti-ship ballistic missile are pre-mature, otherwise it won’t really be a contest ;). The most likely naval scenario will be that of India blockading China’s supply route. In a blockade India’s sole carrier will be of little use (its main advantage over the Chinese navy). The PLAN will most likely position dozens of subs along the malacca strait. The subs of the PLAN have a distinct advantage over the Indian, both technological and number wise. Sadly Brahmos do not work against subs.

    I don’t know much with regards to how much both country churn out engineers, although I would like to remind you that with respect to military R&D programmes, The Chinese programmes are comparatively much more mature in all battle space (including space). India currently still mostly rely on Russian exports. Yes I know about projects like HAL Tejas, but these have yet to be finalised.

    Oh and I don’t really follow the logic of the aggressor thing at the end? Why would China be ‘freed’ by the west? Regardless of who’s the aggressor, it’s a NO-WIN situation for both, since both countries lack advance power projection capabilities to invade the other fully, assuming no use of nukes.

83. # David Hu on 05 Aug 2009 at 2:53 pm

    we are discussing the hypothetical event in which China pits itself against its regional rival, India. For the sake of argument, let us examine current military capabilities of both countries. Indian army, no doubt, is going through the process of modernisation, as is the case with Chinese military. However, these developments are underlaid by their respective economic growth, which China is enjoying more than India, a nation wrecked with sectarian violence and political uproar. Whether you like it or not, China is stable and, apparently, is able to have air-tight control of its own media and other propoganda tools, which are often misused to incite hatred and xenophibia among locals in some countries, thanks to their totalitarian system. It serves China greatly in a sense that if War does break out between two countries, China will have ability to rally general public behind its cause and pump enough resouces into the War, which i doubt if India could, even given that their economic strength is in parity.
    Sencondly, if war does come, it is more likely to be land-based, moderate-level hi-tech conventional warfare. In that case, China’s superior air forces and long range missiles will tear India into pieces before India comes to the bargaining table for the truce negotiation. Face it, without interference of other big powers-us, Russia or Britain, India could not stand a chance in a war with second-biggest economy and military. Of three already mentioned, only Britain is the country that might come to the aid of India. Even so, the assisstance will be limited to the supply of some much needed weapons and ammunitions. Sorry, Indian bros, for ruining your fantasies. finger crossed, hope that it doesnot have to come to that cause both countries got bigger issues to deal with at home.

84. # moloy on 05 Aug 2009 at 8:45 pm

    indian population is now 116billion,near about 55corore are upper middle class having a huge consuming &purchasing capability.GDP growth is near about 9%.in case of military power 4th power ful country,huge pool of engineers,doctors,highly qualified profesionals.this era is of asia(INDIA &CHINA)beaware europe&USA

85. # anubhav on 06 Aug 2009 at 5:25 pm

    hey this is the first time im blogging here-well to start with i wud like to correct some of my foreign partners that india strategically (for any warfare) very well equipped remember the himalayas and the way the southern part of india is made ,next is we dont boast off on our technology or weaponry which we are developing from the day we got our freedom,,we have the country that has more than 55% of youth and believe me out of it 54.9% believe in do or die situation,if ever a war takes place we can kick china (the time will tell dudes)and im confident enuf with my words, we have enuf war experience actual strategic wars im talkin abt not against some old shit islamic radicals,ever herad about capturing of tiger hills against pakis yeah!you white racist check abt that we have google you know(invented by you people only)and misused by us?we are an intelligent race ,,we have many cultures (and im boasting here)and you people have one too YMCA lol,, we can talk better than you every indian or asian present here knows atleast two languages,ha ha ha and now im coming back to war fare as already told ya we dont boast like you people take for example the programs you show on the history channel or discovery watever, and now please dont refer world wars we fought in that too although under you people but we fought,,god knows why and how we got colonised lol we are very greedy people especially if it comes to knowledge ,(money also)bharat mata ki jai hey english people check this phrase in google lolzzzzzzzzzwe used it during british but kick

86. # Will on 07 Aug 2009 at 9:30 am

    Do you really think battling is the solutions? Why not fight the continuosly diseases happening to the world? The global mankind were suffering, perhaps they are going to face even larger challenge that they could not imagine? Wake up humans. No matter you are white, yellow, brown or black skin. Just stop all the craps you guys were talking about.

87. # Will on 07 Aug 2009 at 1:10 pm

    Let me tell you indeed China had already gained huge war experienced. It is simply because the Chinese was having long civil wars and to fight others too. For instance, remember the famous Korean War, Vietnam War? How about WW2? Do you know that the Japanese were nearly surrender to China if not the Atom Bomb succeeded dropped by the American? Yes, from the documentary, we only knew that the A bomb dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki save a lots of lives and it also released the pain tortured to the Asians. But in some certain extent, how many knows the real truth behind? China lost battled to the Japanese mainly because the Kuomintang during the time was far too weak. If we open the history book, you will get to know how the Kuomintang lost to the Japanese. As you can read from the history books, one of the most popular evident shown is “The slaughtering to Nanking”. It was ashamed that the Kuomintang soldiers was doubled or, maybe tripled the size of the Japanese army but easily tamed by the Japanese. Only one thing, the leadership and the courage of the Kuomintang was worst and terrible. Thus, the only shameful lost China due to the weakness of the Kuomintang (has becomes Taiwanese government now). The Japanese always frightening to the Communist soldiers because they fought courage and discipline. After the WW2 ended, the Chinese was back to the civil war once again. This times the Communist vs. the Kuomintang. The Kuomintang taught that they can easily defeat the Communist just within 2 months. They were totally wrong because they were not courage enough, not discipline as the Communist did any good strategy when dealing with war, no good leadership and one last thing, which is the key to succeed. The Kuomintang does not have the influence or persuasive abilities to unite the Chinese. That is why the Kuomintang lost to the Communist and decided to fleet to Taiwan.

88. # PJ on 07 Aug 2009 at 5:31 pm

    @anubhav

    You remind me of some fist pumping chinese youth I saw in a chinese talk show on TV when they talked about how chinese navy should face off the US 7th fleet in the Pacific and how chinese military should dominate or at least co-dominate the Asia-Pacific region with the US in the near future.

    I know you are proud of your country. The blood is pumping in your vein. You feel invincible as once I was when I was in my teen’s and twenty’s. However, over the years, as I grew more mature, I learned to look at things more objectively. Nationalism sometimes is dangerous, it could blind you from reality. You said 99.8% (54.9%/55%) out of indian youth believe in do or die when there is a war. Therefore, india can kick China’s butt. This is a quite interesting statement. Have you seen “Saving Private Ryan”. Do you know how horrible a war is. Do you still keep the pre-world war I & II “War is Glorious” mentality.

    Let me give you some facts to show you that your statement “India can kick China” is insane.

    1) Other than conflicts with Pakistan, India never participated in a major war. India never faced devestation and horror of war like China did in WWII. 10 - 20 million chinese perished in WWII in comparison to less than 50 thousands indians. Can India handle mass death.

    2) Communist nations have a good tracking records of winning wars against much more superior forces. USSR defeated Nazi Germany in Russia. China forced a drew with the US and allied forces in Korea. Viet-con defeated the US in Vietnam.

    3) Bravery does not mean much in modern warfare. The Japanese fought bravely in the Pacific compaigns. Very few soldiers surrendered. They charged against machine guns. Even the civilians committed suicides after the US troops took over the islands. They inflicted heavy casualties on the US forces. The results, with superior weaponries, the US casualty rate in comparison to Japan was between 1 to 3 to 1 to 5. The US handly beat the Japanese. Do you think the Indian youth are as brave as the Japanese soldiers in WWII.

    4) Let’s talk about military strength excluding nuclear weaponries. On paper, the current chinese military is about 1.5 times to 2 times as strong as the Indian military. China’s military modernization is faster. China’s annual military expenditures is twice as much as India.

    I am a Chinese American and I have many indian friends. We share similar values. I think that is due to the close historical ties between India and China. China and India are both developing countries. Economy, improving people’s living standards not war should be on people’s mind. I’ve been to India. I don’t want to offend anyone here, but from what I saw in Delhi and Mumbai, India has a long way to go.

89. # Will on 07 Aug 2009 at 7:17 pm

    Stop arguing! It is pointless to compare to their arsenals. I do not believed the Chinese taken the Indian as enemy. Conversely, the Chinese will sincerely hope that they can negogiate with the Indian in order to tackle the frontiers problem. Our country lives in diversity and harmony because we all trusting each others. The Indian not only can speak fluently mandarin but also to other Chinese dialects. Similarly to the Chinese, I know some of them can speak fluently Indian as well. Many Malays also can mastered Mandarin and Indian too. If our country can do it so can China and India. Friendship forever!

90. # Tejas Jadhav on 09 Aug 2009 at 12:07 am

    I is to be noted that whenever any calamity takes place or there is a national emergency, the 1 billion Indians always come together and act unitedly. Common examples, the Peace rally after 26/11, the Kargil war, or fighting for the Independence itself. Well its the Indians who lack; instead of serving own motherland, we run to USA, UK, UAE or other countries when our country really needs us.

    Both countries can settle their problems by settlements and mutual co-operation.

91. # Will on 09 Aug 2009 at 11:28 am

    I agree with you Mr.PJ. HOWEVER, without bravery from your people, how can you win a war? Like the American, relying on the air-strike? The American also understands if you want to win a war, you have to send your ground troops. Do not tell me all you need is the advance technology you will grab to win an easy battle. Appropriate training, good strategy plans are also vital.

92. # John on 09 Aug 2009 at 10:31 pm

    The comment above about the Americans relying on air-strike reminds me of a funny quote from the game command and conquer generals, where after being constantly harassed by American jets the GLA troops on the ground shouted ‘come fight on the ground like men’!!

    I think one should make the distinction between bravery and will. The lethality of modern weapon and the empty battlefield tends to make outstanding bravery appear more reckless than anything else. It matters in certain situations, but for the most part combat relies more on cover and stealth. I think will/motivation is what Mr Will was referring to :). Without it an army is sure to lose any battle or surrender, which I think was one of the major problem plaguing the Iraqi army. A lot of the men simply surrendered and never put up a fight. And yeah training, strategy and the lot are all crucial.

    Interesting point by PJ about communist countries winning wars. China can hardly be classified as a communist country nowadays although it still retains the military benefits conferred by one. Main advantage being ‘what the government wants, the government gets’. Civilian resources can often be utilised without question/bureaucracy, and usually with great public support. Ethical or not, this is undeniably efficient.

93. # Will on 10 Aug 2009 at 6:44 pm

    In most cases, air supremacy dominated wars, no questions about that and it is effective and efficient too. But if you send the air force without the ground troops support. How could you win a war or to capture a place? Ground troops are always needed. Believe me or not, even to the very modern battle fields do need ground combats.

94. # Arun Sharma on 12 Aug 2009 at 7:49 pm

    Americans have the inclination to arm the two races. History already predicts that either kurds in iraq and nothern alliance in afghanistan .They created the so called islami mujahideens in early 80s to counter russia but now Americans thenselvea are facing the nightmare .American think tank now want to hold indian race against china by so called propaganda so that the subcontinent will come under the nuclear holocaust .These americans the so called NRI are also included so that the chinese will not match their expertise .In nutshell whenever and whereever americans have interfered and will interfere that country will be torned away into bit of pieces .I will urge indians to let sino-russia-india link must be formed to counter the NATO effect in asia .That will bring nightmare to these western people .These western always racially abused asian let us show them asian might.We people share common heritage and cultural roots with chinese

95. # Indian on 12 Aug 2009 at 8:01 pm

    India should build Economy and Military sincerely, and Yes China needs to be punished for attacking us.

    China needs to know how it feels to be defeated, China has lots of enemies, lets make a gang and hit china hard.

    India should think about the lesson to be teached to China and work sincerely building economy and military.

    China is not unbeatable, vietnamese gave them lots of dead bodies, we Indians are good enough to give them sleepless night for decades.

    Lets start working and give them a lesson. China is earning more enemies than it ever did, that is going to destroy them soon.

96. # David Hu on 13 Aug 2009 at 5:57 am

    i don’t really understand those childish sentiments expressed by those ignorant people. the matter of fact is that despite indian british heritage, which they have mixed feeling s towards, international investors prefer china over india for its stability and air tight political control yet relatively open market economy. while india, in comparison, boasting its democracy and track record of human rights, is racked with politically and religiously motivated violence. to be perfect honest, countries like india or others in africa, that lack democratic roots and corresponding institutions, would be better off with a dictator and totalitaianism system like china. don’t take it wrong way, i am not defending china over their poor human rights and wide-spread corruptions. i just think they are smarter in view of the disastrous turmoil in the transformation process in russia. Getting your priority straight, and look over the maslow human needs hierachy. don’t just jump into something completely alien with the leap of faith. the precedents in support of my argument abound.
    secondly, in terms of demographics, it is true that india has much larger younger population that unfortunately are unemployed. they are either being shipped off somewhere else for better job opportunities or deliberately misled by those evil politicians and demagogues for their own agenda. some idiots on this website are exaggerating indian sense of patriotism. give me a break, if you subsist on one dollar a day or slaving on another country, how much pride do you think he has in himself, let alone the country of birth. at least, chinese are not so pretentious. i was surprised that hundreds of chinese voluntarily turned up in austrlia on the eve of beijing olympics and most recently in defense of china’s policies against those tibetan and uyghur exiles.
    last not least, i don’t believe china will go into a war with india or vice versa. nobody will benifit from it and even a kid knows that. but as for the military capabilities, china has much more superior air force and missiles while india has upper hand in navy. that is the fact and the end of discussion.

97. # Will on 13 Aug 2009 at 11:30 am

    Do you think great populations help your country grow? You are dead wrong, my friends. Even the Chinese are trying to control to their populations. This is indeed one of the easiest things to be spotted easily. How come some of you people still stubborn and do not realized that? And you still wanted to make silly judgment or criticize China?

98. # Will on 13 Aug 2009 at 11:34 am

    Population growth rapidly could create chaotics and wealth instability to your contry. Prove me wrong!

99. # Will on 13 Aug 2009 at 7:45 pm

    My sincere apology to the Indian friends because I may have come out some statements could hurt them. But I doubted the westerners, especially the American do not wish us (Asian people) to stands together. They were worrying our Asian economy surge causes them uncomfortable. They were jealous to our achievements. Who knows, maybe one day Asia contingent could surpass to the Western Europe. Although it could takes longer time to prove it. Anyhow united we stay!

100. # Aung on 14 Aug 2009 at 12:54 am

     I don’t think Chinese people and Media ever talking about war with India .
     When India tested a nuclear bomb and bought a lot of weapons , they always mention how they can use those things to China .I am sure China got more nuclear and conventional weapon then India , but you will never heard the way like what India media and their people talking .

     Here is a link what India Navy Cheif talk about reality .
     http://forum.globaltimes.cn/forum/showthread.php?p=4426#post4426

101. # Roy on 14 Aug 2009 at 11:59 am

     @ David Hu

     Slaving on another country….

     Get real and understand what is globalization. Who makes the country? Is it absolute or a relative thing. What is the point of fighting over those fake boundaries and calling other slaves if they choose to cross them. You are living in 21st century but I am afraid your mind is living the the feudal ages.

     I think in your post you’re getting bit confused between patriotism and nationalism.

102. # Will on 14 Aug 2009 at 4:06 pm

     Aren’t you Indian fellows are overestimated to your motherland militants? Do you think India can defeat China? Give me a break. To be honest, China three lines military power are well balanced. Not to mention to their new hi-tech weaponries have yet to go publicity. Some Indians still do not realize how horrified a war was. Do not make irrational statements.

103. # VID – India vs China on Military Strength – Conventional and Nuclear | Aby The Liberal « Yahyasheikho786's Blog on 14 Aug 2009 at 5:00 pm

     [...] via India vs China on Military Strength – Conventional and Nuclear | Aby The Liberal. [...]

104. # Desiguy on 14 Aug 2009 at 10:05 pm

     @ Will.

     OK, so let’s consider for a moment that the west don’t wanna see Asian countries together, OK!

     BUT did any of one Asian country ever tried to improve relations with each other??

     Pakistan, China, India, etc.. all the countries are ready to do anything to destroy each other in case of their benefit.

     west try to create rift between Asian, because WE Asian give them chance.

     SO stop blaming west, and take care of Asia first.

105. # Will on 16 Aug 2009 at 12:22 pm

     India does not have the advantages to the sea. Have you guys done your research? Based to the U.S. military satellites revealed pictures shows there are several potentials navy bases built from China. Hainan Island is one of the examples. It indicates China has the full abilities to go for long range war on the sea. Do you think one small out dated carrier can dominate the water? You are quite naive. Let us compare to their submarines. China is in the upper hand. I said this because India just started to build the nuclear submarine lately, although we knew it has succeeded thrown it in the water. Still it is a small nuclear submarine and it is never going to frighten the Chinese. How about compare to their war battleships as well? I do not think we need to quarrel here. There are great distances between China and India, no matter to the quantities and the qualities. China is also in the upper hand too. If some of you do not agree. Do not hesitate to search the web.

106. # Avisek Ghosh on 16 Aug 2009 at 2:45 pm

     @ all frnds,
     Hope China and India maintains long frndship………i just read a book called himalayan blunder about 1962 war between India and China.As per my knowledge if war happens same fate is awaitng on us as it is in 1962.

107. # promoth on 18 Aug 2009 at 9:16 am

     i recently read an article stating the chinese view about INDIA as a nation that never existed and its view about disintegrating INDIA.I just want to tell my friends across the macmohan that this nation may not have people of the same race ,people speaking the same language,people worshipping the same god,but,it is a nation were a tamil speaking guy dies saving a bengali.A muslim cries for a hindu.There is something which cant be put in words ,it has to be felt.

108. # Will on 19 Aug 2009 at 12:08 pm

     @ Desiguy 

     Accusing me blame the west? Interesting! You should pay attention to as follow:

     Firstly, I am absolutely no bias or misunderstand to the west. Secondly, I, myself do not blame to the west. Why do you think that way? I am just telling the truth. The truth is you know nothing. I am pointing (no intentions of being rude) you for acting immaturely because you are being blinded by your country. Of course, who would surrender to their sins when they were got involved in bad things? Would you? Have you ever heard the Chinese always says “if no wind, there would not be heavy ocean wave breaks on a coast”? Allow me to translate to you, hopefully could make you understand better. It means if there is no spreading rumors, would there possibly chaos taken place between people to people or country to country? Besides, economy in the west slumped and it needed decades to recover. But to Asia, the situation is different because Asia is at the adverse effect; although Asian did suffered economy sit back. Most of the Asian countries doing great because their past experienced enables them to sort out their problems for at least not to being worsen. Remembered? My country was once encountered the same problem as the financial crisis attacked the Asian region hard; luckily we managed to solved the crisis by ourselves without yelling for help. China government is still managed to hold on to their economy growing because of their strong firm backbones (their reserves was enormous). China even planning to buy US mortgage funds because China feels he needed to do so. Perhaps, this is due to their friendships or their political ties. It is indeed a both win situations. China has contributed a lot to the United States. At least China tried hard to push up your valuables dollars. How do you feel about that? We should be thankful to the two Asian leaders, China and India. Asian do can survive till now due to they were playing their important roles by helping their neighbors. I can assure you, if these two giant leaders willing to work together, our region may live even better and stronger.

109. # Indian on 19 Aug 2009 at 3:38 pm

     Why are you people discussing about war… And about comparison (for a better country), I prefer India… as I prefer freedom to food I don’t like living like a dog waiting for biscuits from government. Though there is a lot to improve in India… The best thing I like about India is FREEDOM… About China, I feel like its the biggest prison ever built

110. # Chanakya on 20 Aug 2009 at 1:52 am

     After going through some of the comments on India & China and having personal experience of both the countries , I think that the Millitary and Economic power of neither country will change the ” no - winner ” situation. Both these countries have huge poverty , wheather they hide behind the dazzles of Shanghai or Mumbai. Both the countries have official corruptions. Both the countries have ethnic problems. Both the countries have huge population to feed .
     Over the years both the countries will have more , economomic and millitary power .
     Finally Democracy will prevail and hopefully, by that time China will have Democratic system and her people will have voice of freedom .

111. # Desiguy on 21 Aug 2009 at 4:16 am

     @ Will,

     oh, ca’mon, why are you keep changing from your post to post?

     why are telling me about chines achievements? Did i raise any question on that?

     On one side, you say, American do not wish to see India and china together, and on the another hand, you say, WE India and china should work together, DOES that mean that India and China are not working together, like US and England, ???

     If India and China are not working together, Than stop accusing west by saying America do not want India and China to work together.

     OK.

112. # Desiguy on 21 Aug 2009 at 4:17 am

     I mean to say Unlike USA and England.

113. # Will on 21 Aug 2009 at 6:51 am

     @indian (staying in Hong Kong)

     I suppose are you living in China as well? If so, why you chose to stay at Hong Kong? Excuse me. Hong Kong also belongs to China. You guys are weird and posted funny statements.

114. # Will on 21 Aug 2009 at 9:09 pm

     @Desiguy

     Pakistan, China, India, etc.. all the countries are ready to do anything to destroy each other in case of their benefit.

     You are such annoying person. Well, Ok. As you wish. Let’s go back to the point. Where did you get this false information? I assume you were kidding. If not. Proof it! Unfortunately, I see no signs, where USA and UK are working together? Though I doubt they did try, but end up with failures and painfulness. The US and UK working together ONLY when they feel they can earn themselves benefit. Let me remind you again. Remember the so-called Allied (lead by US and UK) invaded Iraq? It seems like the so-called allied had found plausible excuse to rob the Iraq richness crude oil. The allied made up an excuse claiming that once they have capture Iraq and defeat the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi people will get their freedom as promise and will no longer live in fear or torture. Give me a break! Who would have believed that the allied actually did it for justice? Do you think such lie could give a false impression to other? Hypocrite or liar should be punishing! Yes. They were punished. Look at their economy and their politics now. It is modern ages nowadays; we should react rationally and responsibly. It could be disastrous when bad things slip out by your mouth. I hope this website will not censor my statement posted as I am telling the truth. I said this to prevent my statement sometimes being deleted when I tried to voice out my disapproval. I mean there should be freedoms, unbiased to whosoever wanted to voice out their feelings or truths.

115. # Will on 22 Aug 2009 at 12:45 pm

     @Desiguy

     In fact, UK has regretted they should not have joined US by sending their troops to Iraq. At least UK has admitted it was a terrible mistake to have sent their troops. Before the allied troops deploy, the Iraqis people would have lived better compare to now. After the allied troops captured Iraq, the Iraqis people were suffering. Live in pain, fear and terror. The allied troops have worsened the situation in Iraq because there was certainly no terrorists attack and madness suicide bomb blasts before their arrival. You called both US and UK working together? This is insanity. I beg you get what I mean here and do not take this seriously.

116. # Will on 22 Aug 2009 at 7:15 pm

     @Chanakya

     I had to agree with you whenever there is a corruption. One country would not have progress or maybe even worst. Neither Capitalism nor Socialism could have avoided the matter of corruptions.

117. # Adam on 23 Aug 2009 at 9:15 am

     It is interesting to see that this debate is heating up this year. It caught my attention when it was said that India moves 100,000 more troops into india-china border a couple of weeks ago. I would like to make some points to help our India friends to realize the real situation here. Many of our Chinese friends living abroad like David Hu have pointed out many good points in their previous comments and I fully agree with them. Here is mine points.

     1. China’s geographical advantage.
     China withdrew from the disputed lands and drew back even 20km from previous border to promptly stop the 1962 war with India after winning it. China took 30,000km of Aksai Chin east of Keshmir but withdrew from 90,000km of south Tibet. Why? Because it is strategic high ground. With Himalayas in Tibet, China is completely on the very high ground over-looking Inida. India is in very disadvantage position geographically even before the war starts if there is one. That is why Tibet and Shinkiang are strategicly important and a national security to China.

     2. China’s SY-400 Guided MLRS
     China ground troops have many MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket Systems) including SY-400. See this video:
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kStrufAWNeY
     The longest coverage of MLRS is 360Km (be able to cover whole Taiwan).

     Rocket systems is even much cheaper than short range missiles not to mention that China also has huge number of short range and mid range missiles. So basically, China will use MLRS and missiles to take out most of Indian’s military airports and aircrafts at first round of attack. It will be much harder for India to be vice versa due to the fact China is on high ground. Without Indian’s air defense, China aircraft can bomb Indian anywhere they want.

     3. China’s ground troops are double the size of India’s.
     If China decided to take the 90,000 south Tibet back, it is relatively much easier for China to put 500,000 troop onto India-China border without worrying about defending capital city. If 250,000 ground troop comes down from Akasai Chin and takes Keshmir and continue to move toward New Delhi, India has to move a lot more troops to defend its capital New Delhi while another 250,000 troops to take back south Tibet or say Arunachal. My point is that India simplly will not have enough troops to defend if China wants to take back whatever she wants to take back from the disputed land unless India triples or quadruples it’s current military size because of its geographical disadvantages (capital is too close to the border and at low ground).

     Conclusion:
     I really hope that our India friends have to make a realistic assessment about the situation not blindly believe that half billion brave Indian kids will win a modern war.

     My suggestion to Indian government and our Indian friends is that to work really hard to cut a deal with Chinese government now. China is not looking forward to having any war with any one now simplely because it is not a win-win situation for anyone. I think India has to give some land back to China. It will be really difficult for Chinese government to tell its people why losing 90,000km south Tibet land to India when they have the power to take it back.

     I don’t think time is on Indian’s side or China side. Time is not on India side because military force takes time to build and integrate. It is not simplly counting on high-tech missiles or nukes or submarines. China’s military is modernizing with great help on economy growth (faster GDP growth rate than India and much bigger economy size too) now. I said time is not on China side either because India occupied Arunachal for closing to 50 years. It will be more and more difficult for China to take Arunachal back after 50 years. It is not what China couldn’t, it is simplly less legitimate to take it back. I think 2011 and 2012 will be the critical years, which is 50 years after 1962 war, for avoiding the war between India and China.

     Let me ask our Inidan friends: is there a way to give some Indian occupied land back to China to make a border deal and make a peace with China?

118. # John Victors on 23 Aug 2009 at 9:26 am

     Presently China has upperhands in all its three lines (Military, Airforce, and Navy), India is lagging quite lot comparitively. China’s defence building all around India (Pak, SriLanka, Burma, Himalays, Bangladesh, Hainan, Nepal, etc) is to isolate it in case of any major war. China can attack India from all directions and bombard all its major cities and destroy defence resources there by giving extreme damage to the country and its economy. Currently both nations are immensely drowned into building their economy at the same time strengthening their defence as well. China is leading in everything. There seems to be no war sign at least for another two decades, but there is great possibility for war in the far future when India start leading in economy in Asia. China can’t accept its lagging behind India. At that time, China may start looking its border issues with India or Induce Pak against it for war. There could be a minor or major war and thereafter it settles with some losses on both sides. That war instant possibly going to trigger India to re-think on its total defence strategies by then later it may consider investing huge amount of money in its defence R&D and technologies leading to become one of the great super power in the world. What China currently doing against India has got adverse effect and going to trigger India to stepping into super power arena.

119. # Will on 23 Aug 2009 at 2:05 pm

     @Desiguy

     Yes. Perhaps, you were telling some truths here. But it does not means they are not working together in the future. Did I say they have work together at present? And thanks to the United States causing terrorists attack many countries. Before that, did that ever happens? This is happening after the United States and its allied have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Troubles spread almost to the world. China and India were competing for their weaponries due to United States have provoked this. I think you may not know that or have to deny that. Taiwan and China could not have united because US was behind this. On one side, US said they hoped China and Taiwan could have united one day under peace conditions and mutual agreement. On the other side, US keep selling their weaponries to Taiwan. Their excuse was to balancing both China and Taiwan weaponries at the Asia Pacific Ocean. Come on. Do you think Taiwan would return to China could happen in the future?

120. # Will on 23 Aug 2009 at 7:27 pm

     Alright. Should we stop debating this issue? Shouldn’t we concentrate to some urgently important aspect, such as the issue of global warming, natural disasters and diseases?

121. # Will on 24 Aug 2009 at 7:23 am

     @Nitin

     I should have waken you very earlier while you were dreaming in sliver came off from your mouth. You are truly nothing to your country but just big mouth or like a new born baby. I feel you are not travel to any places before, even to your very near neighbors. You should ask your travel expenditures from whoever that affords to buy you air ticket to China. Come and have a look from your own eyes wide open to China. To be honest, without prejudice to India, India is almost exactly the same to Africa, except Madrid. I have been to India before. It was the most disgusting and horrible country I have ever been.

122. # Roy on 24 Aug 2009 at 11:35 am

     @Will
     How come Tibet can be high ground when it is a plateau and the Himalayas are one of the world’s highest mountain range lies between Tibet and India. Most of the range actually lies within India, Nepal and Bhutan border. So from Tibet you will actually be looking high up towards the mountains of India and not down towards the Indian plains.

123. # G.Vinod on 24 Aug 2009 at 12:14 pm

     @Will
     Nobody had asked your opinion regarding India and India is also not longing
     for your visits. I have never been to China but have boarded a lot of Chinese
     cargo ships, which call Indian ports. To be honest, I have never seen such
     dirty ships in my life (worst than African ships). The kitchen/dining rooms in
     many Chinese ships emit smells like Indian roadside dustbins. It would be the
     most disgusting experience in one’s life if he happens to board a Chinese vessel.
     First you should keep your house in order before throwing mud on others.

124. # Joe C on 26 Aug 2009 at 2:40 am

     What I think is that India has never been a great power in the past. Ancient India has never been a superpower in the past, and its greatest military achievement is just probably unifying half of India. The only they haven’t been attacked yet is because of their isolation (himalayan mountains.)

     Ancient China has always been a power to fear. China had been unified in aspects of territory, language, currency, etc. ever since the Qin dynasty. The Mongols fought all the way to Rome. And now, the chinese superpower is rising again.

     Indians have always been more giving to caucasians. Even now, Indians revere the more lighter colored people because they have some european blood. India in basis, have also been greatly influenced by the British. Democracy, education systems, and most other growth has been implanted by Europeans.

     Here’s a fact that most people don’t know. Ever since China went into chaos after the fall of the Qing, U.S.A., Britian, France, and many other European countries ransacked and robbed Chinese goods and artifacts. The point is that Europeans have never tried helping China afterwards, except in Hong Kong. And now, China is standing up again.

     I’m sorry, but Indians will never be a great military power. However, they can definitely help industrial and economic growth.

125. # Will on 26 Aug 2009 at 9:54 am

     @Desiguy

     You admit you were Indian. So I do not think you are in one neutral side. No wonder I feel stranged to your name.

126. # Will on 27 Aug 2009 at 6:07 pm

     From the statements posted by you guys. I noticed that there are always hope for us to seek for true peace. Most of them were rational and peace lovers. Especially statements being brought up by Yang Lu Mishra quite long time ago. And he was just 16; he understands China and India should remain their friendships as their ancestors were. China and India are well booming countries and their people are well educated nowadays. However, it would not be easy tasks to solve their mutual misunderstandings or benefits. So they have to deep down consider whenever there is a possible conflict. They could be able to turn it down wisely. I wish them luck and friendship forever to China and India.

127. # Will on 28 Aug 2009 at 9:37 am

     @Desiguy

     I was trying to forget about the DEBATE you argued. But I just could not. My brain was kept on asking why China, Pakistan and India would have to work together. What for? As long as they are not attack each other. Who cares they are working together or not? It would not change anything. The situation still remained the same. It would not be necessary to them to work together as they can be able to protect their interests. Unfortunately, they decided to widen their borders. And you also need not worry if they are being attack because I think they can well defend their country. Not mention to the UN interference. As my conclusion to this matter, whenever there is a misunderstanding, conflicts could take place. Similarly, it could happen to the Western Europe and the US, chasing their benefits.

128. # Logan on 29 Aug 2009 at 6:04 am

     So I’ve been reading most of these posts, and I’m pretty sure it will show the flag denoting me as belonging to a very large, if very corrupt and faltering republic with serious imperialistic issues and a leaning towards future dictatorship or corpratocracy (rule by corporations) but just in case I will state I am an American.

     First off, I will hands down say I prefer India over China. In fact that is a lie. I love India for all its total fuckedupness considering it is an aspiring democracy of over 900 million people, 600 million of which are laborores, which is guaranteed to cause problems. It has serious economic problems, it is overcoming and dealing with cultural issues, MASSIVE poverty, pollution, environmental problems, and really dumb ideas (such as a particular temple devoted to rats, wherein one gains good luck by eating something they chewed on..rather unhealthy) But nonetheless, India is still trying. The only reason China has developed so far is for similar reasons Hitler was able to bring Nazi Germany out of a depression. When everyone must do what you say or die, things get done. When you can cover up and fake any “problems” like you know..starvation, rebellion, people not wanting to be owned by a dictator, and such petty things that we here in the semi-republics have to deal with, then it is no wonder China has “risen” so much. Secondly someone here stated China does not have a wide ecomonic discrepency between its lowers and uppers. That is such an outright terrible wrong fact that it hurt to read. Look at any totalitarian socialism with a freemarket run by government-supported cronies (like our corporations to an extent) and guess who has the money and above-tragic living standards? Not 90% of the population. So shut up. Also China has an artificial economy based on the value of our dollar, it in fact benefits from trade with use while we screw ourselves over. Its entire economy would collapse if we cut off trade with them (And contrary to some opinions, ours would not, it would just hit a brief downfall like the depression, then we would have to just completely rebuild an economy so it does not suck like we did before, and hopefully this time not fuck it up again.)

     Now off the hatred of the genocidal and evil chinese government, If China were to wage war with India it would be for the benefit of both countries. Why?

     Both have huge populations. India cannot form a fully-functioning democratic republic with its vast population. It simply does not have the resources to educate, help, protect, feed, or even give many a decent chance at life. The case of China is the same population-wise, and in a large war it will collapse, thus giving the peasants a better chance at life. So if both countries were to engage in a massive groundwar and solve their strategic territory claims, and more importantly, much more importantly, their ideaological differences (Liberalism vs. Authortarianism, individual vs. the group…etc..) they could end their population problem. You have got to start somewhere. Now in the case of a war and deciding who would win. As someone pointed out earlier China’s main oil supplies have to be sent from Africa and other sources in the Indian Ocean through the Indian ocean. This would mean India could cut them off. In a straight fight, both nations would suffer terrible casulties, neither would use nukes (Following the MAD principle here) and China could not defeat India just as India would not be able to defeat China in a simple straight fight. Unless they did succesfully cut off China’s fuel supply. Now the larger point here is that if China were to attack India, most likely the US would step in on the side of India. Already many companies, corporations, and businesses are pulling out of China and moving to locations in Eastern Europe as they have finally realized they were losing a terribly large amount of money staying in China, so the economic factor of allying with China is mostly nullified. This is not even counting the fact the US does not want to continue dealing with a pissing contest over the Pacific Ocean with Chnia (PACOM vs. them essentially) so yet another reason. Now if the US were to go to war with China, it and Japan’s navy would likely join and severely devastate Eastern China, it’s ports, it’s cities, and it’s fuel stations. China and Russia have also been in a staring contest over Siberia, as China wants its resources, so more than likely the nice dictatorship the Russians have now set up would also join in the attack on China to protect its interests and grab more territory to create a larger buffer zone. Now with Japan, America, The Russian Federation (dictatorship), and India (absorbing most of China’s army and bullets) China’s military would be outright destroyed.

     Do not call me a racist. I have nothing against the Chinese, I just hate their government for the same reasons I dislike mine and Despise most other governments of the world.

     War is unavoidable in this situation, and it most likely will come sooner than later, your best bet is to hope the best for a happy ending, which more often than not, a war fought for the right purposes (So essentially a war unlike all but two major wars in the last century, i.e. WWII and the Indo-China war where Vietnam faught for its independence against those imperialist bastards the French) brings.

129. # Chincx on 29 Aug 2009 at 10:46 am

     China will remain focused on increasing military might to attain parity with the US, until it regains control over Taiwan. After the attainment of this target, China will slip from Communist rule to democracy.
     To test its resolve and to boost its image, China will attack India and capture some area from the NorthEast. Since India may accept this fate meekly, it may not have any enmity towards China.
     This humiliation will put India on the rail and make it more focused and disciplined, and may bring gangland politics to an end.
     If moderates remain silent and fanatics gain the upper hand in the Islamic world, it will be detrimental to India’s interest.

130. # sunil on 29 Aug 2009 at 8:57 pm

     @Adam

     Sorry-got your facts wrong.You may say what you want but Arunachal Pradesh was and will always be a part of India.The Indian Govt will NOT even consider a deal on Aksai chin with China or POK with Pak.May be, you shd try to remember that Tibet had long been perceived as
     “indian” before independence until China took control.
     India was ,as such dumb to keep quiet then.Do not expect any flexibility from India on territorial issues.We do not mind getting pummelled by chinese rockets,we can always fight back.If we don’t get our righful land back,we’ll just take it forcibly.Later ,if not now.

131. # Desiguy on 30 Aug 2009 at 5:12 am

     Name does not matter much.

     i know China is far ahead of India in terms of economic, political and military.
     So i am not screaming so much like you.

     If there is no political will for the economic, than that trade will not benefit much to each other.

     India, will eat sugar from Pakistani, and Pakistani will eat Betel Leaf from India, BUT both will produce hatred!

     I did not raise any question on their military power, so why are you arguing on topic that has nothing o do with this topic.
     just to remind you,
     we were discussing about, blaming west for India, China and Pakistan enmity, right!
     So let’s not discuss about their military power.

     Mu final statement is, before blaming West, First look, If India, Pakistan and China really want to work together as true partner!?

132. # NavBharat on 30 Aug 2009 at 5:15 pm

     God never reserve any land to any country. World earth mass was created to equally share all kind of people to dwell in it. In history, all the land were brutally or illegally occupied by terrific greedy and tyrannic emperors and spewing their population here and there all over the occupied land and start claiming it as their land. Many empires expanded their borders in such a nasty way. China was one of that empire, from Zhengish Khan to Qing, the empire expanded its borders brutally and extensively.

     On the other hand India was shrinked by occupation of their long lived home lands by brutal and barbaric attack from middle eastern greedy emperors. They lost plenty of lands to them. Unattended severe cold Himalayan regions are also taken by Chinese military by brutal force. British also cunningly divided India to seed permanent problem there too. Now Indian’s population is grown to 1.2b and expected to grow upto 1.6b by 2050. As a big population and so dense, their living land mass is so little and there is no free land for their future expansion for inhabitation and agriculture.

     Since China has huge empty land mass (it has got empty land of bigger than size of India) with in it and it is not any loss for them to vacate Himalayan region and return all the occupied Himalayan portions to India which is Inidan’s only hinterland for 1.2b people to enjoy snowing winter there and pilgrimage to pray their ultimate God at gregorious mountain ranges. Consequently China should stop claiming any more land from them. China is unnecessarily spending its wealth on developing its defence on Himalayan borders to threaten India.

     If China ready to do this, it will bring great peace in south Asia and lead for long term friendship with India for its further growth.

133. # NavBharat on 31 Aug 2009 at 4:30 pm

     @Sunil

     You are correct, Tibet & Himalyan ghats were developed by continuous pressing of Indian subcontinent land mass against Asian land mass. For hundreds of thousands of years by constant pressing of softer Indian land mass against hard cored Asian continent, frontier portion of India bumped as Tibet high land and then consistent pressing of this high land against Asia, the trailing portion rised as high Himalyan mountain ranges. The fact is very clear that Himalayan is always growing towards India. If you draw a straight line from top of Kashmir to all the way to Arunachal Pradesh, the area covered under this line must belong to India where all our sacred Mt. Kailash, Manasarovar lake, origin of Bramaputra are located there. Currently all those areas under Chinese control. Now Chinese army is stationed at 200Km away from New Delhi, where got in history Indians and Chinese lived in so close proximity. It is very evident that Chinese brutal occupation of all our Indian high lands during tyrant emperors period. Great Wall of China was their original country’s border which is 2000Km away from New Delhi, but after Zhengish Khan and consequent greedy Chinese emperors they occupied as much as possible until Himalayas.

134. # NavBharat on 01 Sep 2009 at 5:26 pm

     @Joe C

     I agree the facts you put forth in this blog and all those are past history. But the Time will not never be the same. Things will change upside down over the time. Past super powers might not be future powers anymore, strong integration may arise from where diverse people are living together, free democrasy may open up multiple path for human society to enjoy new way of life, inventon of new affordable energy sources may change this world’s economy, new Internet era going to change current working style of people and orgainzations, contacts from extra terresterial going to lead mankind to start their life outside earth. There will be always emerging of new things in this Universe over the time. Don’t underestimate or overestimate anything by seeing the past.

135. # arun on 02 Sep 2009 at 9:26 am

     see guys its very simple,the one who rises will have to come down some or the other day. In acient times India was called golden bird, at that time indians where ahead from rest of the world, but thats not the situation anymore. Now the west is way ahead of india, china and will continue to do so. But time, is never perpetual things keep changing in this world. So as things are changing in the east may be one day india,china and other eastern countries will be sucessfull and west may be down and then again a time will come when west will be on top and eastern world will be down and this process will continue forever.

136. # Kiran Mate on 02 Sep 2009 at 10:30 am

     @ All, Well all already gave their views on India Vs China. Look into the following things: 1.China increases it’s military prowess deliberately. For ex. their hidden nuke submarine port. 2.Vis-to-vis India also increases it’s military prowess. 3.If China attack India then it’s regional conflict. And I think that China will never want to become a regional player.If China want to be true global player then China will attack on US and European countries(other continent) and not the countries around it(Sub - Continent). The thing is very simple to understand that if anyone want his/her home must look good than other around it, then if he/she goes to destroy it who will to see it and for what?. 4.But why china prepared militarily itself ? What is china’s aim? - The answer is, they do not want western countries dominate them in near future.And currently western countries playing each and every game with china to down itself using various ways (may be India a tool directed against China). China must resolve boundary issues with India including Tibet,Aksai-Chin,Pak occupied Kashmir.If china unsuccessful to resolve the border issue with India then that is plus point for western countries to go with India against China.China will loss even Taiwan and East part of china to Japan. 5. I am die-hard fan of Nostradamus and one person that is lives in present world(that I do not want to name) according to them The III World War will be break between China+Muslim+African countries and America+European+Japan+Australia+Russia countries and India keep herself some distance from both parties. But India will suffer from the war too, so at the end it will participate along with America against China because China will pulls all the leavers against India using it’s neighbors(through Pakistan and Bangladesh and Myanmar).India will teach lessons to all those countries which act as evil on this earth for that India requires a powerful Politician as well as Kundalinee blessed Military.And in our old books Brhugu-Sanhita it was written that once a day in near future it will happen.And after war India forms a new World Union Organization and become the head. Till that India never become the permanent member of United Nations.Let see what happens?????. Forget who is superior than who?

137. # Will on 03 Sep 2009 at 11:04 am

     @NavBharat

     Draw a straight line from maps? This is not working! Our country had faced the same consequences as some of our small islands fallen to the hand of Singapore by handed the final decisions to the World Court, if I am not mistaken. World may not had happens conflicts or confrontation from one to another. It is simply not the ways to work it out? This is not the matter of occupation. If one country conquered lands from their great ancestors, who care, it is part of their lands. This is simply because their past ancestors have the abilities from ruling one to another. You have to accept that and have to face the facts. Similarly, Israel was trying to expand their land, if they were strong, they can form their country pieces by pieces. You think that is greedy too? The strong control the weak; this is the true nature of living. Although Palestine was suffering from being swallow. I hate to say that as I am totally furious and against by the cruelness Israel treated to Palestinians. If Himalayas is not part of China, certainly it is not part of India as well.

138. # Will on 03 Sep 2009 at 1:01 pm

     Have you guys ever heard China attack anybody? Did you see China shows aggressive manner to the East or West? Chinese will never ever going to threaten any country nor in the past or future. From our leaders and news revealed shown, we can get to know China because they always keep their promised to prevail peace and stability to the World, particularly in the Asia region. ASEAN members appreciated China government for their commitments to ASEAN countries to provide their supports and ready to help its neighbors to overcome problems they encountered. No matter in financial supports or military supports. How come India could not? India wants to surpass China? I feel the Indian fellows do not easily get influenced by others.

139. # Yoyo on 03 Sep 2009 at 7:08 pm

     Such accusatory remarks acquitted China tried to set-up some kind of conspiracy theory to widen their lands is totally unfair. Serious offense could cause unwanted arguments, terribly like throwing flames to other. You guys collected your false information only from Indian annalists. Himalayas also closed to Nepal border. Would you say it is part of Nepal too? It is not belongs to whosoever. Who taken this hill earlier; they have the right to set their foot or military base there. Indeed they can claim on this hill. China, India and Nepal were closed to the Himalayas hill. How would you have to divide it into fair and square basis?

140. # Chincx on 03 Sep 2009 at 7:58 pm

     The idea that India, China and Pakistan can work togrther is a pipedream. China is nudging its friend to nuke India under some pretext or the other. If suchan attack and retaliation occur, China can walk in and occuppy a large chunk of land.That opportunity seems to evade them as Pakistan is not offered an oppertunity to use their nukes gifted from China, so China wants to step in with a direct aggression before it becomes too late. Remember, they were the most critical of India when it conducted the nuclear tests in 1998. If China delays the attack too much, India will develop nuclear subs and missiles, so any adventure will en up with much losses.
     The prediction that india will be attacked before 2012 is quite feasible. Rest assutred, no country including US,UK,and Japan will ever help India by counter attacking China and starting a third world war. They will be eagerly waiting to reconstruct a fragmented India into may be different countries!

141. # Yoyo on 03 Sep 2009 at 8:40 pm

     Some commented if one country populations growing more and more. And this country does not have enough land to locate their enormous populations. Does it mean this country can capture their neighbors’ lands whenever they like in order to fit in their booming populations?

142. # riso on 04 Sep 2009 at 8:53 pm

     What i think that most of the problem which in today’s world is coz of US and UK , English Divided Indian , Disturbance in Palestine, Origin of Taliban is all coz of the US coz they were the one who were supplying weapons to fight russians . As one of you sd that indian are lazy , US people are laziest people in the whole world they spend half of there life in eating burgers and watching TV
     but Indians knows how to live with limited resources. Indians are true from hearts unlike US peoples

143. # DesiGuy on 05 Sep 2009 at 2:55 am

     @ Will

     You have no idea, what is the truth!

     Seriously, dude, China never attacked or invaded any country in the past?????

     ARE you Serious????

     What about When Indo-china war, Russia- China war, China invaded Tibet, China invaded Xinjiang?????

     Now you will say these were Chinese territories, SO we don’t need to urge anymore, AS you guys will NEVER accept the Truth!

144. # Indian Warrior on 05 Sep 2009 at 6:33 pm

     I read all the posts everyone has written and am shocked at the way people think. Firstly, nobody wins a war. Who are you going to prove is most powerful once all are dead? A war will only make all Nations go backward. Whatever US,India,China or any other country has built and progressed over the years, One War is all it takes to wipe out all the efforts and take all the countries back to the 18th Century. As for India, please do not maistake Indian tolerance for weakness or helpness. India is the largest Democracy in the World and also the largest English speaking nation in the world. India has the 3rd largest Army in the world and is capable of protecting its motherland alone with no help from anyone. India was the richest country in the world and was robbed of it. India has a history and culture unlike other Countries including US. What India lacks is unity. The only problem with India is that they havent learnt what the British did to us - “Divide & Rule”. We may have fought for 200 years and got our frredom, but we are making the same mistakes and fighting amongst each other in the name of religion and caste. Other countries are talking advantage of this to divide us. I am sure after the 26/11 attacks in Bombay, Indians have woken up and the patriotism has awoken. Pakistan attacked India time and again, but this time it has woken up the sleeping Giant. India will strike and strike hard. Just like insects keep biting and biting and biting……..One big blow and all insects are dead. That is what is going to happen. Never underestimate anyones power and never go by numbers. Its the spirit and the power within that decides victory and survival. India is the only country which has all tearrains - Snow, Desert, Jungle,Ocean - all extreme temeratures -20 degrees of cold and + 50 degrees of heat. Indain soldiers are trained to survive and fight in any temperature and terrain unlike the other countries. Other countries including US,China,Russia etc have to come to India to train for CIJW (Counter Insurgency Jungle Warfare) as Indians are the best. As for Indian intelligence, US in the west and many other countries depend on Indian brains - from NASA scientists,engineers,lawyers,finacial experts,etc. Indians are considered the best. Nothing stops India from being a superpower, but the point here is what do you want to prove being a superpower? Peace is what matters otherwise why give birth if all you want to do is kill? Think about it. God made the Earth with no boundaries and terrotories. God didnt make countries. Gos didnt make religion. God didnt make caste. God was color blind, he didnt make black skin and white skin. He made a Man and a Woman. Little did God know that they would be the most dangerous weapons that will destroy the beautiful Earth that God created. Enjoy the Oceans, the Mountains, The Nature. No one has a right to destroy what they cannot replace. We destroy trees - can we make them - NO. We destroy mountains - can we make a Himalaya - NO. We pollute the oceans - Can we make an Ocean - NO. We kill Man - can we make man - NO. We have no right. Live in Peace or else judgement wilol come from above. Here people fight to be a superpower. Please understand, the all powerful is out there named - GOD. He mad you and me and this Earth. He made it, He can take it away. We have one life - Enjoy it as all die one day. Why kill? One should only fight in self defence to protect oneself. Not attack and kill for power or to possess, because nothing is permanent and nothing belongs to anyone. We all were borm alone and came with nothing, and we all will die and take nothing with us. Make this world the beautiful place God meant it to be. God Bless everyone.

145. # NavBharat on 06 Sep 2009 at 6:30 am

     @Yoyo

     What you are doubting is wrong. What Indians want is our own land. We don’t want others land. We have lost lot of our lands for invaders during the first & second millennium periods on North-western and North-eastern side of our country. Even if India become most powerful nation in the world in future history, we won’t invade other’s land, but just want to re-establish our olden and golden India. If expansion of high powered nation and shrinking of low powered nation is natural and acceptable for past and present, remember the same theory will apply to future history as well.

     @Will

     If you study history, after Zhengis Khan the Chinese empire expanded as big as it never had before in its history. In contrary, Indians keeps on losing their inhabited lands at northern side for past two millennium.

     @Chincx
     If China attacks India on or befor 2012 or anytime in future, it is OK, we don’t worry about it and welcome it too as well. It is going to kindle fire among Indians to re-unite and integrate strongly to become more harder nation to break.

146. # ichem on 06 Sep 2009 at 10:36 am

     i have read all comments and i feel they show lack of knowledge about each other.In todays world of nuclear bombs i dont think any one is superior. only three four bombs can crush any army or country.neither india nor china will benefit from any kind of war. We indians believe in non violence and throughout history we have never been agressor. China is as poor as india, earnings of selected companies run by a group of people or gvernment and statistics based on them do not show us the real picture. But i strongly believe that a little taste of financial success have made chinese govt. arrogant and ignorant. they might loose all 20 years gain in just 20 days of war, therefore thy should think of there poor and sick population rather than war and superpower status.

147. # ichem on 06 Sep 2009 at 11:04 am

     i read some articals from over british and american freinds it appears. some said india has never been a power and biggest success was to conquer half of india. u should know that some indian states r bigger than 2 or 3 european contries combined. and half of unified india is larger than whole of europe. ur napolean even never conquered whole of europe nad alexander died while returning from india. ganges khan and mongols and other aggressors were only looters and never held any part of india. we have never grown on loots unlike britain,france and pourtagal who are made on indian money.
     As for america which has history of less than 400 years what can i say. they are like child who grows and lives happily till it faces the reality of cruel world. most of the conflicts of today ( afganistan,palestine and iraq-iran) are nurtured by america and west and now they say that they are fighting the consequences.
     daily more american soldiers and british are dieng in afganistan than they didd in vietnam war. terrorism is a gift by united states to whole world.americans have always backstabbed, they helped iraq against iran and later attacked iraq and killed saddam. they nurtured terrorism in afganistan against russians and later attacked afgan and also pakistan.they only work for there business needs and others should now realise this.

148. # RANGARAJ CS on 06 Sep 2009 at 7:22 pm

     There are are many offensive comments about India’s slow progress and unqualified appreciation of China’s growth. This is mainly because lay readers and citizens of both countries do not go into realistic details of economic condition, politics and administrative control excercised by ruling beaureucracies in both countries.India is having lesser development than China mainly because our nation ( I am an Indian) consists of many countries with distinct cultural development, it is in fact an ‘Europe’ in reverse.Corruption, Law courts functioning in a biased manner, Political immaturity is another factor. Chin’s internal politics may not be known to us well because everything is hidden and suppressed but corruption is existing in equal measure if not more than in India. However China’s autocratic oligarchy can get things done unlike in India where every Tom, Dick and harry can move the court on trivial issues. Inspite of this , India has progressed and it will not be a walkover if ever (I mean ‘ever’) war breaks out in the Himalayan Borders. Every Indian knows that alliance with US of A is of a temporary nature and it is not in the same level as with former SU or Russia now. Bythe by, on Indian licking white man’s arse, it is now the whiteman who is licking ours to get piece of Defence orders.It is now happening every day and i look forward to the day when we not have to kow tow to Anglo Saxons (including France) to get our Hitech equipment and these will be made all in India. I do not want to be offensive to the west who have real achievement to their credit, but when Ancient Rome/Greece can crumble, so it is possible for the new Rome (US of A ) also to go down inspite of all the hitech equipment . Instead of kidling hatred let us look forward to co operation in the days ahead of environmental degradation. Lastly, I do not want India to become like developed West, let it retain some of the good aspects of its ancient wisdom. Let us go slow and not pursue unrealistic Western Consumer targets which the English speaking elite ( real boot lickers of West) in India does. Comments of Chinese here in this blog is quite enlightening and shows their maturity.

149. # prabhu on 07 Sep 2009 at 5:15 pm

     Recently China shown aggression by entering India’s kashmir about 1.5km and writes in red stone as China.
     China is stronger then India in Armed forces, Nuclear bombs, Missiles. But no countries will help China.
     India is stronger than China in Airforces(Dont Count the Aircraft but the Fighter Planes Sukhoi 30MKI advanced than Chinese J11 & J10 and Bomber Planes), Navy. But USA, Europe countries(Russia will support) will help by Military Aid to India To knock out Chinese Aggression.

150. # Sandeep on 07 Sep 2009 at 8:13 pm

     It was really interesting to read all the comments by all. Some of the nationalistc commentries from netizen belonging to either side of the border. But, I missed to understand the moot point that was the reason behind the conflict. Is it just for a piece of land (Arunanchal Pradesh) that China thinks belongs to them? Which belongs to India for the last 50 years? I understand there are already plenty of land in China not properly developed at the moment. So, I failed to understand the actual economical benefit China would like to bring with this probable war with India. As per my understanding, any war is fought with certain objectives to get fulfilled. Also, it associates with its cost and benefits. In the present scenario, both China and India has already umpteen problems to solve rather to get involved in another problem(war) that is counter productive for either sides.

151. # arun naudiyal on 08 Sep 2009 at 5:46 am

     i sincerely believe that by violating border rules CHINA is doing more harm than good to its people .

     it’s high time now that we should realise that terrorism is much more important issue than fighting amongst each other.

     if any chinese spokesperson has seen this post , he should convey to others.

152. # Chinese Clan on 08 Sep 2009 at 9:32 am

     I’m 18.All I know is India is never a bandit like Britain , USA , Spain ,Genghis Khan or Japan.Yes, many of my Indian friends are seemingly barbaric in speech and gesture,but I find them to be easy-going friends but I like to mingle with them.They may point a fist at you as if wanting to hit you but are actually peace-lovers in nature.Not like some so-called “developed” countries like the USA or British Empire,who are treacherous backstabbers with smiley faces.These hypocrites should never be trusted.To Americans & British siblings of mine (we are descended from Adam & Eve ), please take no offense. I know that general UK & US people are decent, but their governments are controlled by shadowy elites. Sigh ..what to do? Everyone’s a pawn.I hope India won’t be used as a pawn against China.I ,as a peace lover, do not want to see my Chinese brethren hurt the Indians in case of a India vs China war,the India is China’s spiritual mentor. Why should a mentor fight his own apprentice?

153. # Will on 08 Sep 2009 at 8:16 pm

     Stop hoping other countries will help us except us. Do you guys see any other countries willing to help if your country is suffering difficulties? The answer is simple. No. You have to depend upon to your neighbors if possible. Do you think the US, Europe and Russia are ready to help? No. Don’t even dream. They will help only when your country is ready to pay for them (benefits). Who can assure when war occurs, these nations (US, Europe and Russia) are going to aid you at the very first time? I am afraid to say, no. I am not pouring cold water on you guys but this is true. Do you think the US, Europe and Russia are friends of you? You are terribly wrong, my friend. To be honest, China understands better than India. For example, did the westerners ever help us to overcome the 1997 Asia financial crisis? No. We have to save ourselves in order to prevent our currencies to be devalued. IMF intervenes only to some conditions, whereas a country has to follow their intentions. Unfortunately, one country management has to be reshuffle. Needless to say, this is how their games work.

154. # Logan on 09 Sep 2009 at 6:19 am

     On the note Ichem about the USA nuturing wars and causing terroist actions. You are right. On the note of the US being a child. Just look at World War Two and the First Gulf War. We are currently bastards, but we are completely capable of Massive military retaliation and invasion, we are not a child. India was unfortunately robbed of materials, wealth, and minerals by England and the Ottoman Empire. (Many Indian jewels, artifacts, and generally shiny things can be found in the Vatican or England) but nonetheless they manage to be a very peaceful nation, even if it would have been better had they rose up militarily and chrused the English rather than a peace movement that did not accomplish anything (England left becuase it just did not have anymore reason or the power to hold onto its farflung colonies) except make people feel a little better about themselves and starve.

     India is very advanced, and although many western countries are complete jackasses, they are at least on the scale of Really Evil Nations, the lesser of many. Also they are by the most advanced and democratic, as unfortunate a thing to say as that may be. India is not “Western” or “Eastern”. Those terms do not really mean crap. If by western you mean civilized (not in the Roman way, the Goths and Picts were more civilized), advanced, and not a corrupt dictatorship then the old Mongolian empire under Ghenghis Khan was pretty Western, modern Japan is “Western”, and in this context India is very western. That and if you equate the West with Caucasians: i.e. White People, Indians are the worlds darkest causcasians [helpful racial/cultural fact]. Russia, South America, Lithuania, Albania, etc. are not Western by these standards, besides being more or less the same shade of lightish skin tone.

     Oh and India is not a pawn to be used against China. The world has problems (caused by people) and these problems in this the wonderful Age of Kali, in which we are to be in for another several hundred thousand years, unfortunately require people to fight, and if they are not good enough, to die. And as a firm despiser of America’s current foreign policy, I would like to say we should either leave every other country alone, or better yet, cut off all support to dictatorships (like the one’s we had made in Iran, Afghanistan, South Vietnam, or the one’s we do support in South America and Pakistan) and completely and utterly destroy them while supporting any and all revolutions in the country against them, socialist or not. So we should attack the dictatorship the Chinese goverment has created. We should bomb North Korea (Again, and do it right this time). We should let India and Pakistan figure out there borders (once we cut our support to Pakistan).

     And the shadowy elite that runs the USA, well, if I am not killed as a thought criminal, I’m certainly supporting any attempt to fight the man. To put it lightly. Luckily my shadowy elites can only destroy my health and chance at a decent light from an economic and supply stance. The Elites in China can have you shot. Anybody care for the liver or kidney of a dead prostitute? The Chinese government sells them. Watch a video sometime.

155. # Logan on 09 Sep 2009 at 6:20 am

     In that last part I meant life, not light.

156. # Will on 09 Sep 2009 at 10:58 am

     One commented India has Su-30MKI. True. Haven’t you forgotten China has already deployed Su-30MKM too? Not to mention China has bought Su-35 but has yet to be deliver. China is the 1st country after Russia to have such sophisticated fighter jets. Didn’t you read the newspapers or heard from TV? India so called is the most freedom country in the world but publishes inappropriate information mislead you people. Should I describe as the blind leading the blind?

157. # Will on 09 Sep 2009 at 11:38 am

     “If you study history, after Zhengis Khan the Chinese empire expanded as big as it never had before in its history. In contrary, Indians keeps on losing their inhabited lands at northern side for past two millennium.”

     Why you keep relate this issue to innocence China? What do you mean losing land? To whom it losing land??? Don’t tell me Himalayas again. You also study history and can you remembered one great India ancestor named Asoka? India also invaded others. Have a quick reference to Indian ancestors. Asoka (c. 300-232 BCE) was born into the Mauryan royal family. After his father’s death, he became in 270 BCE the ruler of an empire extending from Afghanistan to Bengal, and covering the Ganges plain and the Deccan plateau. He pushed out the boundaries of his empire during the next decade, conquering Kalinga in 262 BCE. In this way he unified nearly all of India under his rule. He converted to Buddhism in 260 BCE and thenceforth propagated ideals of tolerance, equality, and public service. Chola kings exploits lands in South East Asia. I didn’t know Afghanistan is part of India too???

158. # Will on 09 Sep 2009 at 11:43 am

     By the way, Genghis Khan was not a Chinese. He was a Mongolian. Am I clear now?

159. # NavBharat on 09 Sep 2009 at 6:21 pm

     @Prabhu

     Your info is correct. Even India is having strict BSF and 24 hours patroling, still China is doing incursion inch by inch everyday hour or every day. What about olden days, there was no BSF or proper border lines established or nobody there to question them if they just do incursion into our land. Furthermore we fell under Moghul rule consequently to British and no one cared about our highlands. We had just got time to fight those foreigners sitting inside our land and ruling us. China was cunning and easily occupied all those our severe cold mountains including Tibet without a single fight with us which we kept as buffer zone and mostly not suitable for inhabitation. They are getting stronger and stronger in military. Now, how to get back Tibet & Himalayas from China? India must put a claim on all those lands from China.

160. # true indian on 09 Sep 2009 at 6:22 pm

     we all want a good relations with all of our neighbours. Indian and China will become super power soon. BUT BUT

     EVERYBODY KNOW THAT CHINA DEFEATED INDIA IN 1962. But very few people know the actual reason of India’s defeat. It was the WRONG DECISION made by PUNDIT NEHRU. When the chinese attacked Arunachal Pradesh they didnot have a strong airforce where as Indian airforce was quiite strong and it is believed that if Pundit Nehru would have ordered the Indian Air force to counter chinese attack then the scenario would have been different.

     Secondly Pundit Nehru’s foreign and homeland policy was so weak that he could not understand Chinese intension and seeked mercy from its own people from Assam and entire North East India for not been able to save their lands from Chinese invasion.

     By the way these all remarks are based on the grievenses of the people live in North East India and writings of the war cemetary in Arunachal Pradesh. So healthy and genuine remarks are welcome …….

161. # Yoyo on 10 Sep 2009 at 10:38 am

     @Logan (another Indian American) no means to insult!

     Did you mean China? China was robbed terribly by the ugly 8 allied nations during The Ching Dynasty. Namely, Britain, France, US, Italy, Germany, Japan, Spain and Holland. I heard there were many huge pricey antiques, jewelries and a lot’s more taken away by these pirates. Some were in auction in France recently. There were still a lot more in their country or hidden in their museums.

162. # indian on 10 Sep 2009 at 3:21 pm

     Hi,
     We indians have never throughout in the history attacked others.But then also we have managed to impress others by the mode of peace and harmony.Did the chinese have any record of indian intrusion in their side.On the contrary, india has an official record of 57 chinese intrusion attempts this year ,say 2009.Why dont this jealous and greedy chinese just mind their own business.

163. # NavBharat on 10 Sep 2009 at 5:24 pm

     @true indian
     I am bit contradicting with your facts that not only Nehru took that war decision to use only military to fight against China during 1962 conflict, but all three force chiefs would have been involved in discussion for the final decision. The only mistake he did was his over trust on China, even after the war he didn’t fully understand the China.

     One thing you should understand that Indians never ahead of Chinese in any areas for last few millenniums. In all, we are behind them always. We are the first one started Indus valley civilization, Chinese also started their civilization only a few centuries later but in a faster pace. From that time onwards, they are in advance in all areas until today, we are just lagging behind them.

     Chinese are one of the most intellectual race on the earth, good enterpreneurs and great warriors as well. Nevertheless, their culture also comparable with Indians. It will be very difficult for Indians to defeat them so easily at any cost.

164. # NavBharat on 10 Sep 2009 at 6:02 pm

     @Will

     Genghis Khan was Mongolian, you are right, but his Khanates of vast empire was managed by immediate mongolian successors, but after that it was slowly taken over by Chinese emperors, the last one was emperor Qing. The western Khanates were collapsed after his death and eastern are still under Mongols followed by Chinese. So Mongolians were the seed for present Chinese greediness. Once Qing’s empire collapsed, successing Communist govt returned the occupied lands to mightier Russians and vis a vis separated the Mongolia from China as well since Mongolians always dare to attack Chinese. The Great Wall of China will tell you the story about it. Since India was very weak and fighting for its own motherland for freedom, China didn’t care about anything to return back which belongs to India.

     What you are talking about King Asoka is very childish. In India, there were always existing minor and major kings. At one time, one of the minor or major king will rise as a emperor and all the other kings need to pay tax to him. One or two or few generations later, the empire will fall from power, the minor kings will be freed from taxes. Few century later, another emperor will rise from different part of India. This was the story always continuously happening in India in its olden history. The minor kings also sometime fight each other with neighbors. All those things were happening only within India. Afganishtan were part of India in olden days. After Mongolian success, Afganishtan was severely and repeatedly attacked by Moghuls and Indians were droven away from there or all killed to literally no one existed there.

165. # Logan on 11 Sep 2009 at 4:50 am

     Actually i’m just American, but the specifics of my ancestry are welsh, english, a pinch of irish and belgian, and a third unknown.

     Yeah, we alot of countries did loot China. And that was wrong. Simultaneously that is what I hold against China, they are doing the same thing now.

166. # anuz chaudhary on 11 Sep 2009 at 9:30 am

     ya….i have seen article, i m true human being then i m indian, i just want to say that we indian have two billions hans to serve humanity but also we have one billion dedicated heart to kill and die.thast it .vadne matram

167. # Chinese Clan on 11 Sep 2009 at 10:37 am

     Dear Logan,
     What to do? The world is a greedy place.Judge anything individually.Don’t judge a country’s individual citizens based on the country’s reputation.Communist Party of China is indeed dictatorial in regards to media and individual rights.Of Course there are bad apples in China, in fact,every country has bad apples.The good aren’t absolutely good whereas the bad ain’t necessarily pure evil.For someone who mentioned about the dead prostitute’s organ being sold,is she deliberately murdered so that her organs could be sold? No.She’s already dead.The carrion worms and bacteria will eventually decompose her into elements.If somebody (a living person) needs organ transplant for life continuity, why should we let the living die in honour of the dead?
     Are you an undead,Logan?If she’s murdered by the government for organ sale,then it’s terrible. But that’s not the case.You couldn’t blame the whole goverment for a few greedy civil servants or just some videos( probably faked for attention or sensation only).In China, people can talk bad about the government publicly.One of my cousins in China said to me that the government is not as dictatorial as they seemed to foreign journalism.He assures me that it’s easy to do business and constructively criticize about the government in front of senior officials.The government of China accepts that.But if one incites public unrest in China,he’s the enemy of all (the government and the civilian) for disrupting daily working stability.Riots (normally incited by sedition)destroy civilian properties and tarnish country’s image.China is not as developed as USA.The population’s mentality is not yet well-developed.China might be historically old but the current China is just a newbie in the modern world.Before the populace of China matures in civility and progress,the Communist Party must have a firm hold over general behaviour of the populace,so that chaos won’t erupt.Take for example the previous KuoMinTang Party(which is a democracy party) that failed to protect the interests of the civilian because of weakness and inability to crowd control.The KMT failed to prevent the widespread of banditry and warlordism.KMT has many traitors who allied themselves with the Japanese.After centuries of instability,violence,foreign humiliation and concurrent civil wars, the only way to stability is to have a supreme party to have a tight control on the country —by dictatorship.The Communist have done well in maintaining overall stability of China. The Communist regime of China is like a father to an immature kid(old China).Now that China has grown to an adolescene, the father can give the maturing child more freedom and eventually total freedom ( Chinese Socialist-style democracy with elections).The Communist Party mean good for its people.Sometimes,to be kind,one has to be cruel.For instance the great Asoka.He is a cruel conquerer who slain many not for the sake of his own gain but to unify India with the hope of restoring perpetual peace,he hated seeing the Indians squabbling and fighting among themselves.The outcome,a unified India.Imagine now that we don’t know what is India but Kalinga,Maurya and many other internecine mini states. This goes the same for China’s cruel first emperor who’s too extreme at times,but the outcome is unification— China is born.See,this is the Chinese extremism mentality.The YingYang Great Balance For Moderation concept was hence found.Logan, do you know why China always seem to encroach India’s borders? The leaders of China and India who seem to be enemies of one another are in reality, friends who wanted to show the ever voracious Westerners how “unstable” Asia is.The Westerners feel paranoiacally insecure when Asia is stable.They bullied and culled Asia,Africa and the Amerindians during their Imperialism Era.The murderers always fear the vengeful ghosts of their victims.Back to topic,hostility between India and China is faked.However,from another viewpoint, China executed the Strings of Pearls strategy to contain India as it fears India might be used by India’s former colonial masters(who still remain secretively dominant of India’s economy through indirect ownership of companies by local proxies) as one of the harbingers of Western assault on China after China is weakened by war with India and Japan(USA’s pawn in Asia after WW2).
     India attacking China from the Southwest , remilitarised Japan from the East,Russia(hungry-wolf land grabber) from the North—and China will be weakened, if not dead.Then,history repeats itself with USA, UK, France and Germany invade China and loot it to nothingness.Of all possible harbingers mentioned( India,Japan & Russia),India poses a strategic threat because of India’s strategic position of being closest to China’s Water Supply–Tibet.Japan is less likely to attack China due to their heavy investment in China.Russia is also less likely as they are afraid war with China would give USA and EU an excuse to attack Russia from two fronts to seize Russia’s abundant natural resources.Russia and USA are just manipulating each other,not mutual trust allies like US and UK.India ,on the other end ,has nothing to lose if it invades China with either USA or UK support and backing.USA is a historical troublemaker adept at inciting conflicts around the world, as proven in the Iraq-Iran War.For so many reasons, China feels that it must contain a potential threat so close to it.China doesn’t want to conquer India to burden its own coffer.1.3+1.1 Billion people.,the Chinese government will have to spend billions of dollars to treat sewage waste alone. According to the law of the Communist Legislative Assembly, the government MUST PROVIDE the entire population with rations(flour,oil,rice,blankets,basic clothings,safe drinking water,housing,basic salary etc.)on equal basis based on the socialist system.Conclusively,China doesn’t want India’s lands.It is just acting together with India!

168. # hboGYT on 11 Sep 2009 at 3:12 pm

     @true indian

     The Indian Air Force couldn’t have done much. Chinese anti-air artillery was deployed en mass. They had been very effective in down US planes during the Korean and the Vietnam War. Could the Indian Air Force outdo the US?

169. # Yoyo on 11 Sep 2009 at 8:05 pm

     A son takes over to his father business is a very common thing. Basically, I see nothing wrong with that. China respects India sovereignty today and did not extend or cross over to its land neither in the past or future. India should not accuse China for violating border rules or kinds like that. It seems like someone crying for shelters and foods.

170. # Sandeep G on 13 Sep 2009 at 4:50 pm

     Hello All. India has always maintained no first agression country. But we have always tried to strike a balance b/w tolerance and retaliation. Both are required to a degree of importance.
     Where tolerance gives the opportunity to understand the cirumstance, retaliation introduces the outcome to any mis-adventure. I believe where on one hand India should increase it’ space of upgrading it’s overall military might, it’s time to settle all doubtful issues (related to borders or water) for ever. Indians are not to be taken for ride by anyone. This message should be sent out LOUD and CLEAR.

171. # Analysist on 13 Sep 2009 at 7:48 pm

     I believe there is hardly any chance of war, but china will surely try a hand for incursion. Since, it has last chances of incursion in these years. These point are considered by Chinese defence analysists as the best time for incursion or engage in war. China has buying a huge amount of gold. A countries first steps to prepare for a war is buying and holding gold.
     The reason that provocates china for incursion in India are:-
     1. Ageing air fleets ( flying coffins Mig 21 ).
     2. Lagging in missile technology in ICBM.
     3. Failure in development of MBT ( Arjun ).
     4. Inadequate availability of pilots and commisioned officers.
     5. Ageing artillery.
     6. US and EU is diverted towards economic reform to recover from

     But by 2010-2011 these things will change by following steps:-
     1. Induction of new F-16 from US by MCRA.
     2. Agni III missile technology.
     3. T-90 MBT induction and technology transfer.
     4. Pay commission.
     5. Induction and development of bofors.
     6. Economic recovery by next year

     But more than that, US as well as israel defency agencies are keenly watching the situtation. In case of a war, if china starts with a war, then suffering will be very high. International community will isolate them. A diplomatic and friendly country will never attempt such a steps( even though it happened in 1962, without even provocation, then also china looked for time when international attention towards some other issue).
     China’s military are not going to be fulfill its aims of incursion to India, Vietnam, Taiwan( their mission 2010 ). India is definitely less powerful than china, but not that less. It has some strategic plans and indigenous technologies which are secret. Incursion cannot be tolerated by any countries.

172. # G.Vinod on 14 Sep 2009 at 10:14 am

     The recent media reports on Chinese intrusion taking place in Indian
     territory is not a good news. If true then it only destroys all the
     good work made by the past governments of both countries to
     improve ties.

173. # Sidd on 15 Sep 2009 at 12:12 am

     This isnt going to be a pushover 1962 war. The Chinese army will get hit bad. Do you know how pitiful the Chinese air force is? The chinese pilots have the highest count of shooting down their own aircraft during training. Did you know that the IAF is,technologically and training wise more superior than the PLAF? Technologically today the Indian armed forces are way more superior than the PLA. Numerically the PLA is greated and in infrastructure as well.

     1)125 Mig21- Bison
     2) 125 MRCA - Could be F16,Gripen or Rafael - depending on who wins the contract.
     3)100 Mig-27
     4) 54 Mig-29 Fulcrum
     5) 130 Su30 MKI Advanced multirole combat aircraft
     6) 50 Mirage 2000
     7) 104 Jaguar deep strike aircraft
     200 LCA Tejas production to continue till 2020.

     This is just the combat strength of the IAF. Any future wars will be won by complete air superiority. Now tell me that the war will be a pushover? Dream on.

174. # Will on 16 Sep 2009 at 5:50 am

     Never learnt…huh? Yes. Undeniable, Chinese pilots are not well trained in the air. Most probably technical problems causes in most occasions. Indian pilots could not have better too. Many cases reported Indian fighter jets crashes taken many lives of their pilots. To be honest, Asian pilots never get better control in the air compare to the west, especially, the US.

175. # Raj on 16 Sep 2009 at 8:09 am

     “South Asian’s have traditionally licked the white race’s ass.”

     George Bush, the only people i see licking white men’s asses around here are asian women.

176. # Will on 16 Sep 2009 at 10:28 am

     Go to http://www.newsmax.com to seek for the true data and information required. In case not enough information to proof supportive.
     New Chinese Jets Superior, Eagle Loses to Flanker
     By Charles R. Smith
     On Wednesday, May 26, 2004

177. # Will on 16 Sep 2009 at 10:37 am

     By their expertise and professionalism, these people always telling the truth and never manipulate or hidden truths and willing to share or expose.

178. # Chincx on 16 Sep 2009 at 2:26 pm

     @Sidd
     This is more fantasy than reality. Concentrated attack at the chicken neck area will have the entire North -East cut off. A few well aimed missiles would do the trick. India does not have a second path to the NE. We may have to walk over Bangladesh!

     @Analysist has attempted to get a clearer picture. I more or less agree with it. Peace will remain only if war is made really costly and hence unattractive option.

     In the recent round of talks China took a really obstinate stand. They do not have much time on their side. Their pal Pakis are being tamed, and may not nuke India to their convenience. India is slowly growing teeth in spite of our procrastinating burocracy.

     Regarding Third World War and End of Time prophacies, it would be interesting to look for 21122012, Baba Venga , Mother Shipton and Nostradamus prophacies on the internet.

179. # Varun Kumar Sen on 17 Sep 2009 at 3:48 pm

     Hey Chincks,
     Dreaming is very good thing but dreaming in sunlight comes under madness.. What do u think, we Indian are fool over here.. you will attack on chicken neck of India.. and we will wait for u with flowers and sweets.. bloody fool… first try to save you ass man.. If you’ll concentrate on Chicken neck part… same time you can loose tibbet n many more..
     see, you cann’t get a single inch of Indian land, if war decleared.. come for war with declearation.. but you won’t cause you have habbit of backstabbing… but remeber this is 2009 not 1962.. scenario has been change entirly.. ya it is right that.. we are not able to deploye our missiles and army deep inside china till now.. but remember, in case of defensive war, each n every where you will get a bloody nose..
     Moreover, Indian Air force and Navy is still superior than you, it is small but more capable than you useless n bulky PLAF n PLN.. Even Army is legging behind in numbers n infrastructure.. but we got superior tech. n training.. remeber, Indian army is one of the best in mountain n jungle warfare..
     One more thing, you got more enemy than us, at the same time - US, Israel, Japan, Taiban, Europian Union will come in support of India. Russia will become nutral in this case… So, do u think, Porkistan, North korea n Iran will come in your support in this bloody third world war situation…
     So, stop dreaming.. be real… try to be happy n satisfy with watever you hav.. Don’t look to other home n other resources.. you bloody full thieves chinks…

180. # typhoonq on 17 Sep 2009 at 5:01 pm

     @NavBharat, I am a Singaporean. I have lived long enough to witness the Sino-India Border War in 1962. I find that your comments are very biased towards China and white washed India as a victicm of Border Incursion. You had also mentioned Nehru had put up too much trust on China. This is bull shit.
     You have totally distorted the facts. Since you are living in S’pore, as you know, we have access to both Western and Chinese media both from Hongkong, Taiwan and China. Therefore, we were presented with a well balance views on both sides.
     During the British Rule in India, the British had set up a MacMahon line that marked the border between China and India.

     However, in early 1950’s the Indian border guards started to move the marker posts, north of the MacMahon line. In some areas they had advanced more than 20 Km into Chinese territory.
     I do not wish to go into details as there are many articles such as Wikepedia which give a vivid details of the whole events leading to Sino-India Border War.

     Most Chinese I had spoken to have more or less forgetten about this war. However, some Indians are now thinking with their recent acquision of new weapons from Russia, Israel, France and USA they would like to take advantage and try to regain some of the disputed territories which are now under Chinese control.

181. # JAY on 17 Sep 2009 at 8:33 pm

     Hello FRIENDS,

     Well I think that nowadays war is not limited betn any two fighting countries as it has got some commercial importance and due to rapid globlisation countries having same political system (for ex democracy) will tend to unite directly or indirectly to defend their future interests. If war takes place betn China and INDIA then its difficult to say China will win it only becoz of their so called supremacy in strength.

     Ultimately question is, WHO IS GOING TO WIN? INDIA OR CHINA
     and answer is DO YOU LIKE CHINA to win war?

182. # G.Vinod on 18 Sep 2009 at 9:23 am

     It’s sad to note about the disturbances occurring across the
     Indo-Chinese border. China will be supported by Pakistan in
     case if war breaks-out against India. Already Pakistan has
     started firing across the J&K border from yesterday and it
     seems there is some arrangement between China & Pakistan
     on this issue. Iam sure that U.S will never support Indians in
     case of war and hence we have to trust our friends (Russians)
     who stood by us whenever India face difficulties. It’s better
     to strengthen the relations with Russians than to go behind
     Americans. We have to take note that almost 4 billion dollars
     worth of arms were sold by the Americans to the Pakistanis
     in 2006.

183. # typhoonq on 18 Sep 2009 at 2:42 pm

     Prior to the outbreak of the Sino-India Border War, Nehru had made the wrong assumption that the Chinese will not dare to react forcefully when he implemented
     the forward Post policy by moving Indian troops into disputed territory. He was misled that the major power like USSR. USA and Britain will come to India aid if the Chinese were to counter attack.
     He gave the order against the wishes of his Generals who felt that their own troops were not strong enough to meet any Chinese counter attack.

     India had underestimated the Chinese willingless to defence their territory at all cost inspite of the bad years during the early 1960’s when the Russians withdrew and half of the Chinese Forces were preocupied along the Fukien coastal region over the tension in the Taiwan Straits.
     The Indian Army also failed to recognise the enemy they were facing had vast experience in Alpine Warfare. These Chinese Forces consisted of many veterans who fought victoriously against the US led UN Forces during the Korean War.

184. # Danielcrook on 18 Sep 2009 at 4:42 pm

     Hello! To Every One..
     I am Australian But currently living in the India..
     I had gone through the post Which you all Are frankly mention here( as per as Your willingness towards the country)..
     But one more things i would like to focused here We are living in the 21st century A.D.
     And We (almost every country ) are more advanced in the technology..
     If There any war (by god’s shake it will not happen)will happen between any countries then i think that Rather than the Bombarding to each another by missile, nucleurs power. They Most probably used the Computer’s Because due to high techno you well know that each and every missiles as well as nuclear energy are operated by the computer only And if some computer’s hackers just changing their coding or war areas or destroy the computer by strong virus the definitely all the war from the weapons are in vain( It’s doesn’t matter that the person either belonging from any country)..
     I knows the fact that each and evry computer system of countries are secure by the strong security but peoples are still there (vey few) in these world so that they are able to crack that security too..

     It may be that within some years War between the computer may be happen..
     I am here only expressing my views ..
     But still i don’t want any war between the China and India As well as India With Pak.. ..
     Because Most of the peoples even haven’t enough food to survive…
     Only there is need to changing Thinkings as well as mentality of the peoples (i blaming not any particular one. Don’t take it otherwise)…

     By the way! Let us come here To co- operate each another without any discrimation about the caste,country,etc…

     Please let me Know about your views either in against or in favour..
     I respect all one..

185. # Hemant on 18 Sep 2009 at 7:30 pm

     Guys!!
     What a discussion !!!! I respect ur valuable thoughts. I want to say something about China, China and India both are great countries having a great past.I m an Indian and from my childhood days i looked at China as a great neighbor, i love Chinese people, Chinese culture Chinese food and Chinese movies and never heard a word against China from my parents, my friends and from any Indian i personally know,never found any aggressive article in any newspaper against China.Me and my friends always make plans to visit China. So why this comparison !! it’s the job of defense experts, i think we have a healthy competition between us in which China is leading like elder brother, we should talk about the friendly relationship we can have !!!
     So far as matter of Pakistan is concerned she has proved herself as a country where Terrorism is available as a PhD subject, a totally untrustworthy country, which is developing Terrorism as a war technique in the name of Islam (Islam which I respect truly) due to Pakistan’s impotency before other countries like India, USA, China etc. I would suggest my Chinese brothers to not to have faith over Pakistan because Pakistan is danger, not only for Asian countries but for the whole World.Terrorism in the name of Holy Zihad is a weapon of poor, illiterate, and impotent people who work secretly to secure their ass(Zihad is a holy act and it can’t be terrorism). I m not against all Pakistanis,b’coz i know a true Muslim loves all others and has lovable qualities.Pakistan’s innocent citizens are being driven to a wrong direction. They always compare Pakistan with India and wish to defeat n crush India in war, i would suggest them to develop their country and to not to wage a war, i would suggest them to be a true Muslim then not only India but the whole World will love Pakistan.

186. # Rahul on 19 Sep 2009 at 7:05 am

     If any country wishes to deal with India, it can keep full trust on India. We Indians are never attack from back. But this is not possible in the case of China and Pakistan. We always fives hands of friendship to them but they have always try to cut our hands.

     We also want to leave in peace with the bridge of harmony with all country. But I don’t know why any other country does not support us. Any way if India and China will be merged with harmony than it will be a huge revolution. Then to become super-power there is no need to look in far future for both country.

     Any way this is not in our hand. Because other country will not let us to be merged.

     This time India is far behind then China. But we have one hope that we have world’s largest youth power (Even larger then China.) Half of India people are of the age of 18 to 40. So in nearer future, the control of India will be in the hand of young India. And perhaps our need of strong leadership will also be satisfied.

     When this will happen, there will not any power which can stop INDIA. Just think, if current Old India can compete the world then the next YOUNG INDIA can beat the world…

     I proud to be an INDIAN.

187. # Will on 19 Sep 2009 at 8:49 am

     China dictatorships were long gone and their country administration hierarchy is changing from time to time. Some thought China is still remain unchanged is absolutely naive. The Chinese people can influence the affairs of the government in a number of ways. First, on the village level, there are now wide-spread direct elections. The citizens directly select officials to govern their own village. Such elections were not introduced by a policy of the central government from above. They were instituted from below when the organization of the Commune System collapsed in the early 1980s after collective farming was abolished. The civic affairs of the villages previously administered by the Commune System, such as the provision of security and the protection of public land, had to be attended to. Quite spontaneously, people in the villages wanted to elect officials to administer such affairs. The officials are nominated by the Party organization but individuals who are not Party members can seek nomination and many of them actually have been elected. On the village level, democracy in the Western definition prevails in China. The election is genuine because the villagers know whom they want to elect and the Party desires for its own good to get capable and popular people to take care of the affairs of these villages. China needs to maintained its sustainable growth in their economy and they also need to prevent similar tragedy occurred in the 1969. In order to succeed, they need to schedule accordingly to avoid powers overlap or bedlam.
     By the way, some stubborn folks never accept the truth and turn their arrow back to me. Strange!
     “What about when Indo-China war, Russia- China war, China invaded Tibet, China invaded Xinjiang?????”
     There is no such thing of who reacted aggressively. Clashes exist when there are situation tolerance reaches higher the limits. One country no matter to China or India will never hesitate to fight for their interests or their land. Both of them claimed their borders being incursion. According to experts, India has no firm evidence proven which their border was link to. Conversely, China stresses times and warned India do not cross pass to the border where they already claimed to. India does not listen and provoked the war. Russian never keeps their promised, therefore leaded to the war. Tibet and Xinjiang are part of China landmarks. Apparently, from the history many people know Tibet backgrounds itself and its location map and etc. China attacked them because they were rebellions seeking for independence. It is also well recognized by the globe due to this is China own internal affairs. Now, you are accusing China attacked them both? You are so funny and high, buddy. I do not know why you keep raising this issue again and again. Should you check for the history before made such idiotic statements? Perhaps, Indian people have the bad intentions or evil thought to cross over? Indeed, thieves yelling for thieves catch.

188. # Ashish Tiwari on 19 Sep 2009 at 11:27 pm

     And even though the chinese are still much higher on the military side…but it should be very well remembered that both of them posses nuclear weapons so nevermind opening a war maybe a primary casualty on the military side but when it comes to the civilians,industries and many other things….the only way to protect at last would be weapons of mass destruction i know it’s awkward to talk about that but if china is the dragon we are not the fools…this is what for india tested its nuclear weapons……yeah but certainly i know nothings gonna happen because it’s a mordern era…….US would certainly interfere in these matters after all what comes is supremacy

189. # G.Vinod on 20 Sep 2009 at 12:51 pm

     The Chinese had shamefully accepted some parts of Kashmir (illegally occupied territory) as gift from Pakistan, in the past. So they are no saints when it comes to expanding their territory. We know that they had eyed for Sikkim (Indian state) in the past but had to give up in the end. But their love for Arunachal Pradesh (again an Indian state) continues till date. When the people of Arunachal Pradesh are happy to be with Indians, why can’t China accept it? China should come forward and solve the border issues with the Indians.

190. # Lionking on 20 Sep 2009 at 6:35 pm

     The current super powers need money to run there country. It is possible only if the developing country gets weapon from them. To get weapon, they need cold war or real war(preferable for WEST).
     Why we should give way for them to feed themselves. Think and change the bloody scenario. It is not time for war. Save earth. Earth cant accept third world war. And that would be the last for the humans on earth.

191. # Nofal on 20 Sep 2009 at 10:50 pm

     @Rahul

     “Any way if India and China will be merged with harmony than it will be a huge revolution. Then to become super-power there is no need to look in far future for both country.
     Any way this is not in our hand. Because other country will not let us to be merged.”

     So pathetic, you (Indians) know that China is a superpower whereas you are superpoor and you couldn’t possibly win a war or an arms race against China, so you want to merge with them.

     China dont want to merge with India!you must be of your nut to be that stupid they might want merge a nuke with Mumbai or make a cluster bomb connect with Delhi but they dont want to merge with you ( not even in your dreams and or hallucinations).

     

192. # prabhu on 21 Sep 2009 at 10:13 am

     The main sea link for oil supply is carried through the indian ocean is about 98% and less than 2% through Straits of Lombok. And the exports and imports are carried through Indian Ocean. If war starts it will be the big blow for china in oil supply, exports.
     Recently chinese aggression shows that they are preparing for war to capture Arunchal Pradesh, Sikkim, Kashmir(Ladakh), it leads to India’s armed forces more than 1,00,000 personals additionally added to safe guard the borders of Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim, Kashmir(Ladakh). chinese Bullish aggression will leads to loss of millons of lives in both sides.

193. # G.Vinod on 22 Sep 2009 at 12:26 pm

     The Pakistani nuclear scientist, Mr.A.Q.Khan has revealed the fact
     that it was China which provided 50 Kgs of enriched uranium
     and the designs to create a nuclear weapon, to Pakisatan. Now the
     terrorists like Al-Qaeda & Talibans (who are having a free hand in
     Pakistan) are trying their best to steal the nuclear weapons from the
     Pakistani army. We can’t even imagine what will happen if these
     terrorists succeed in their attempt and the Chinese will be indirectly
     responsible for that (as they helped Pakistan to create a nuclear bomb).
     I would like to state that Iam not against the Chinese people but the
     Government/Army. So I would say that the Chinese government is
     fully responsible for nuclear proliferation and they may even have to
     face the terrorists with nuclear bombs in future.

194. # NavBharat on 24 Sep 2009 at 4:24 pm

     @G.Vinod

     China will not even try to understand its mistake now. One day, their own weapons will turn against them and will cause huge casualty, then they will start realizing their mistake. Until then no one’s word will reach their ears. They have seen good money for last three decades and government is in ecstacy of that. Trying to heap up their weapons to show this world they are number one in power and comparable to US, Russia, and Japan.

     Also trying to build anti aircraft carrier missiles to blow-up the carrier ships if US send it to Asia Pacific and approaches close proximity to China for war in case of conflict. They want US ships to stay away from their sea. You know now how much they are eager to become number one in terms of power. They don’t mind to do anything to become number one.

     China is a great power but no one knows the fate of it.

195. # Chincx on 25 Sep 2009 at 10:57 am

     Without the knowledge of China, nuclear proliferation would not have happened in Asia. They have helped Pakistan, North Korea,and Iran to make dangerous progress in this path.They do not have much concern to reduce the misery of the people of North Korea and Myanmar.All they seem to be planning is how to rule the world. In one school of thought projected, the thinkers feel that only through war will China emerge stronger. Hence they are irresponsibly causing nuclear proliferation. The following link will shed some light in this regard http://www.indiandefencereview.com/2009/06/is-nazi-china-emerging.html
     The author of the above concept is Chi Haotian, a former Chinese Army General.

196. # Rokan on 25 Sep 2009 at 11:38 am

     If A Q Khan himself says that China provided enriched uranium then it is direct violition of NPT by China. Ban China first before banning Pakistan. Both of them are indirect global terrorist. One breeds terrorists and other provides support by all means.

     Chinese people can never be trusted. They are biggest cheats and liars. I have first hand experience. Its not so easy to do business with Chinese. They are never straight. They always come up with dubious deals.

197. # Analyst on 25 Sep 2009 at 6:26 pm

     Dear Friends

     I think we have diverted a bit from the point of discussion that is a “Military Comparison”. Much of the comments which i have seen here are from Indian Community and very few from Chinese. Speaking from the strategic perspective as i will not touch upon the other issues, the political thinking has always affected the strategic requirements in India.Very often Indian government has formed comissions to find out the loop holes, various lessons learnt and recommendations for improvement after a war but sorry to say even 10%of those recommendations have not been fulfilled yet. Why to talk about the GDP or projects like Chandrayan when India doesnt have full scale of authorised weapons and equipments on ground with smallest fighting unit such as SECTION in the Indian Armed Forces. Something is known as Strategic and Tactical Preparedness. India is far lagging behind China in this aspect. China has developed its communication lines upto Indian borders to support its operational logistics requirements. It takes 8-10 hours to a Chinese soldier to reach any where on Indian border where as in our case it takes 2-3 days to reach some of the farthest places. China did Kargil sort of operation in 1986 when it occupied an Indian winter vacated post and still india could not get it back. The kind of intellegence preparation and other operation requirements which are must for a successful ops across Tibetan Plateau on indian terretory has been done by China is mind boggling.Our reaction to such preparations have been less than even minimalistic.Operational readiness doesnt mean that Indians are having any belligerent approach towards any country. Instaed if we take history into account we shall find that China was the country which back stabbed and still has expansionist attitude. China wants its influence in Bay of Bengal and Myanmar region. China’s assistance to Pak military, Islamic terrorists, Maoist and naxal group, and ULFA terrorists in India are not hidden facts, these are the battle indicactors or proxy war. Its China which has always seen India as a hinderance to its development which is wrong. Right from 1947 onwards till 1962 on each occasions; let it be UN Security Counsil seat or natural calamities in China India supported China but since 1962 on all occassions China has been betraying Indian trust and friendship. This is the reason that there is a mistrust and suspicion towards China in Indian mindset. Now some thought about our weaknesses. I also read in comments some where that action speaks louder than words. Thats is absolutely true. Lets see our core weaknesses—- relegious, ethinic, linguistic and cultural diversity, lack of honesty let that be anybody politicians, buisnessmen, govt officials, teachers , students every body is affected to it and lack of sense of commitment and lastly too much of political and Beaurocratic intervention on Strategic matters. I remember an incident of 1947 when there was only 16 hours to save Srinagar airport and J&K state from the plunders of Pakistani soldiers and tribesmen. The Indian Army reacted fast, arranged every thing on short notice, air lifted the troops and on sacrifice of 1400 gallant unsung soldiers Srinagar was saved and subsequently some beaurocrate in defense and Finance ministry asked the Army staff officers as to why the prior sanction of hiring and taking civil aircrafts were not taken through proper channel and all bills were levied against those staff officers. This is how still the red tapism work in India. We need to over come with it. Remember if we have to become strong we will have to overcome of our weaknessess and simultaniously acquire optimum and state of art weapons and equipments. Being strong does not mean that we dont have friendly attitude, we do have it in us provided Indians too should be reciprocated with the same.

198. # Vj on 25 Sep 2009 at 7:41 pm

     Dear Friends

     We are just interchanging the emotions and personal thoughts.

     Just think for few seconds — why we need war? for what purpose we need war? with war what u finally acheived?

     If everyone thinks for few minutes then there is no need of war.

     Igo, selfish, hateredness and evil thinking only brings war.

     Whether west, middle east or east — we are not different form of humans, we are same.

     Everyone loves to live long life, wish to have family, friends, neighbour and so on. We are not born to kill other to take others happiness. We born to share the love to one another.

     Just think if one country wages war against another country, what is end result ? many family will lose his or her father/mother/ brother/sister/friends etc.

     If by killing one another in the name of war or religon is not human nature, Its selfish and evil.

     Its china or india — we are humans borne to human let we live like human.

     Finally we are brother and sisters in a human family.

     We are born into this world to live and to let live. Not to be killed or tourchered.

     by killing one another we need to live in this world as murderer? selfish?

     So will stop talking about war rather we talk about to save our brothers and sisters who will be the end suffer.

     Let we hold our hands to spread love instead war and hatednes.

     Hope u guys will agree with me..

199. # Will on 26 Sep 2009 at 11:31 am

     Does Mexican government reveal its military expenditures without hidden secrecy? Some said India as its democratic government system requires public accountability. Does Mexican government? If not, they should STOP accusing China for hiding military spending secretly. Who knows, whether one country is sincerely show its military spending and did not keep a level of secrecy as some said China does? What are their real intentions? What are they wanted to achieve? Mind their business.

200. # Will on 26 Sep 2009 at 12:42 pm

     Our country has many above mentioned professionalism in fields migrated to overseas, particularly in the US and western countries to get better pay. Have you notices? What does your country get in returns? No. Eventually, one country losses its talents and potentials to other countries is such an ashamed. To China, they too losses many professionalisms to overseas, consequently their country, may become less productive but to other countries are become stronger. Do you think that is your people pride or disgrace?

201. # hboGYT on 26 Sep 2009 at 4:28 pm

     @Analyst

     There is no such thing as India supporting China regarding UN security council seat.

     Go to UN’s official page. China is one of the creators of UN’s charter, who together felt appropriate to let the 5 countries that contributed most to the establishment of UN to have a previlige.

     India contributed zero, zip, nada.

     China backstabbing India is just Indian propaganda.

     Regarding China being a proliferator, the only instance she might have done was for Pakistan, and that was becasue India a non-signatory of NPT decided to acquire nukes.

202. # vannala vidya sagar on 27 Sep 2009 at 9:06 am

     Dear Indian and Chinese people,

     Work hard for the Nation and Eradicate the poverty from Asian Continental and give the good future to the New generation People of both the Countries.Have a Competition on all fields and it has to useful to the commom man of the Country,India and china has to become role model to all Over the World.In my view the Major step has to take to build the trust with one another then these Two Country people can innovate new things and in Twenty Century people can live in Peace,If War possess on India or China then the Asian Contenental will be Dark Shadows because one third of Population live in this region.

203. # Ag on 27 Sep 2009 at 8:25 pm

     Please read this one from BBC NEWS
     http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8225540.stm

204. # Roy on 27 Sep 2009 at 10:58 pm

     @hboGYT

     Excuses are like assholes. Everyone has one. So don’t make excuses. China signed NPT so they should not pass nuclear technology irrespective of India has done tests or not. Since India didn’t signed the treaty so they have all the right to test so any sane person can conclude from this is that the Chinese were not right in this matter. Sorry for bursting your bubble but this is the fact. What makes China think that they can have nukes and India cannot? And to justify their point if they want to proliferate India will be happy cause indirectly China is admitting NPT is crap which India is saying publicly for years. The stupid people keep on entertaining me all the time.

205. # shobhit on 28 Sep 2009 at 4:17 am

     china has more than a thousand aircraft……thats what the indian air force calls a target rich environment..hahahahahaha
     we wont even hav to get a lock on with our missiles…just fire away and with those numbers well definatley get hits
     i think india’s concern should be the purchase of huge stockpiles AA missiles

206. # scott wong on 29 Sep 2009 at 4:58 am

     China and India are both great nation. Let there be peace between these two countries, build up their economy and defeat their mutual enemy which is poverty.

     Every here is in this board is either pro China or pro India and is demonstrated by their condescending remarks.

207. # chincx on 29 Sep 2009 at 12:36 pm

     @Shobith,
     War is no computer game. The Chinese Air Force won’t be playing sitting ducks for a target practice.Will they be flying with their hands tied behind their back?
     Kindly search the web to find out what the Ex PLA General Chi Haotian has in store for the World!
     Without building the needed capacity, we better not get involved in a war with China. How many years were spent just planning to buy the much needed 126 war planes!And still we have not yet decided!

208. # hboGYT on 29 Sep 2009 at 2:43 pm

     @Roy

     You’re right. India is not bound by the NPT. I didn’t think anyone other than Aby were smart enough to dicern that.

     As an old Chinese saying goes, weak countries have no diplomacy. When you are as strong as China, you can break a law or 2 with impunity.

     Every new member of the nuclear club threatens the existing world order, therefore according to the winners in this world order, should not be allowed nuclear weapons.

     @shobhit.

     Nope, the first thing PLA does is to blanket your airfields with missiles.

     When will Indians realise they are using AA missiles that the Chinese also have? R-77s fired by both sides would be prone to jamming. Good things is China has its own PL-12. Lol

209. # NavBharat on 30 Sep 2009 at 3:42 pm

     The factor of winning the war depend on many things when fighting using sophisticated weapons both sides. At the moment, China has most advantageous position with respect majority of the factors. India still need to work hard on further defence research, developing new strategies, spending more money on state-of-the-Art indegenous weapon production, defending techniques, effective counter attack, retreating the enemy, and establishing reliable communication between all three forces (M+A+N).

     If India think that what it has currently IS enough to counter China, it will be stupified and end up with huge loss in case of war. Possibly what currently India has is enough to takle Pakistan and somewhat to defend against China’s aggression, that’s all. But in real war situation, India may need to face serious losses and offensive attack from both Pak & China.

     Further development of defence research is a must for India. It has to attract more schorlars for defence research areas, and need to invest huge amount of money on R&D. India also can become arms seller once it achieves its goals and can recover back the investments.

210. # G.Vinod on 01 Oct 2009 at 9:16 am

     @hboGYT
     India is a responsible nuclear power and is against proliferation. When you say
     that “Every new member of the nuclear club threatens the existing world order”
     you should also remember that those who are doing it (North Korea, Pakistan)
     were aided by China with nuclear weapons technology. Iran is going to join
     this list shortly (with the help of Pakistan). What is the use in saying that
     you have diplomacy when you sell dangerous arms illegally? Can we call it as
     diplomatic fraud?
     Let China take control of their own Tibet/Xiang Jiang etc first and then think
     of firing missiles on others airfields.

211. # Indian Blood on 02 Oct 2009 at 10:08 am

     Respected indian soldiers.every one is comparing india with china i agree with our indian soldier stregth we can defeat china.with the ration of 2-4.if its less than start recuriting civilian at the time of WAR.at that TIME i will BE a 1st civil solider.But i preffer peace always.Bec life is preceious get them live let we live the fools of other countries let them dream we know what strength & power indian have.
     jai hind.I PROUD TO BE AN INDIA.

212. # Chung on 02 Oct 2009 at 10:25 am

     It was Nehru who let China have a security council seat. China was not even invited to the U.N. in 1945. Learn some history foolish person. Mao idealized by us Chinese was an uneducated low class bully. He never kept his promises to even his close friends. He killed more than 30 million Chinese in his purges. His body should be burned on the street. Instead China worships this menance. People in my family were killed by him. I think China need to rethink agression with India. Let India have Arunachal. And let Tibet be free. There is no historical reason to fight in this area.

213. # LetsFaceTheFacts on 02 Oct 2009 at 6:04 pm

     I am an Indian and probably a true Indian in the holiest of spirits and also probably the lesser ‘lazy ones’ !! There is no denying that India lags behind china in most of the things but lets face it, there are many good things also about this country given the fact that its receiving some share of overall FDI each year and which is also increasing each year by the way! Indian economy is growing pretty fast by any developed nations yardstick and is only second to one i.e. China. We’re not against China but instead we want to emulate the China story minus its negativities and we’re doing it or at least trying to do it albeit lazily!! You cant turn iron into gold overnight can you???? Well, if you’re able to by using some atom manipulations then I’m sure the gold is not real isn’t it ehh??!

     Now, coming onto what India or Indians are doing wrong. We must first accept that we do lack something which the Chinese aren’t and at the same time keeping in mind that we also do have other goodies too which the Chinese are not blessed with!! Now, what I think we’re lacking is a collective vision and the urge to achieve that collective vision. Why do we have such bad roads? Why are we so unprepared for the commonwealth games ? Why do our cities have power cuts ? Why do Indian village not have clean drinking water ? Why are there slums in India ?
     The reasons are innumerable and solutions….just one. We as responsible citizens of this country need to act RESPONSIBLY without any selfish purpose. Curruption is the biggest challenge and its engaved right from the top to the bottom most section of the seciety…its every where…every field …except may be the Indian Military or at least not to that big a scale. We must talk less and do more…and we are doing more but it needs to be even more all the time…it should be a never ending process. Build world class airports, highways, transportation, hospitality and show to the world that we are serious about ourselves. Get ourselves into decipline not by force but by choice.
     We have the greatest minds, greatest values taught to us, morals you wont find anywhere else on earth, greatest history in terms of culture. We guys have everything we need to make it happen!
     Why dont we sit down and prepare a list of China’s exports and ask ourselves, why cant we buuld them in here ??? and of a better quality ofcource and at a cheaper rate?? Once we do that, China will obviously start feeling insecure and then it might attach us in frustration….well which shop keeper wants to see buyers going to a rival shop???? We need to prepare for that eventuality….and we are doing it I hope.

     Now, coming onto the military capabilities of India. Indian military is no longer like what it was in 1962. Also, a very important fact that we miss on the 1962 war is that we lost it not because of the fact that China had beaten us but because we gave them a stick to beat us with. We did not use our Air Force combat planes in that war and we had an inventory of Hunters, Canberras, Mig-21’s, Mysteres, Gnats etc. The Nehru govt. was too non violent ideologically and did not want to protray India as an agressor or as a staunch defender using its force. We instead went to the UN which like everytime could not do anything. Why have we made a such a Security council like China where countries like China cant respect freedom of peace loving nations like Tibet??? why can t we undo the basis principles of UN which were laid down in the previous century? Dont you feel its unfair for countries as far as Zambia ? or Equador??? forget about India which has 1/6th of the world’s populatin but still is not a member of the security council. Is it fair?? do you need to have a glittering skyline like that of shanghai to be a permamnent member is it??? Not fair people not fair…the whole concept of 5 countries taking the law in their hands and be responsible for the whole worlds…its just not fair….I would propose a rival body like UNO and ask world countries to join that instead where all were equal and policies a bit more democratic.

     You know what, china & Pakistan or any other country eyeing for a war with us, just leave us alone ..no one wants to look at you…coz we want to lazily and slowly topple the world powers off their dominion and also give our own citizens a sense of pride. Let us be busy doing that and not waste this precious time…and while I was writing this, I just realised I have got to go…I am working on a multi million dollar project not for an Indian firm but for the western world..this is what we’re good at ..leave us alone and let us do our job.

     Cheers

214. # Chinese Clan on 04 Oct 2009 at 5:35 pm

     I,as a Chinese,know that China cannot attack India.Why?If China attacks India,India nukes China,China deters the nukes with lasers,China counter-nukes,India destroys the nukes with deterrent missiles,India sends commandos to Tibet,China repels and besieges entire Indian border,China casualty damn high,India defensive perimeter breached,China enters India,India launches guerilla warfare,Chinese troops in India ambushed one by one,Indian & Chinese troops clash constantly,both forces casualty damn high ,China calculates its not worth attacking India then recall troops back to mainland,both forces’ strategies in warfare scanned by USA,weaknesses revealed,USA laughs,Russia care the damn,Europe laughs,all attack China together,India on the other hand have to submit to greedy USA’s oppressive terms & conditions after weakened.If the concept of power balance is understood, no war will ever break out between great powers.Remember,there’re COVETIOUS LURKERS everywhere! Two sides fighting ends up with third or fourth party’s victory.

215. # John Davis on 08 Oct 2009 at 2:15 pm

     It is now impossible that two nuclear armed countries are fighting a serious war. It’s true that China is ahead of India respect to military strength; but India at least gained the power to detonate a 20 kt. bomb at a range of minimum 3500 km. So, only small clashes at the borderlines can be happened, not much of that.

     But for future safety India needs to achieve 3 goals:-
     1> Making MIRV or stealth 15000 km range ICBM
     2> Long range (12000+ km) stealth aircraft
     3> Thermonuclear bomb

     India is in the way to make these or gained little success. India claimed (unsupported) to have thermonuclear devices. Besides they are surely going to have stealth fighters in 8 years. How can I say this? Because they are with the Russians (FGFA project) and Russians already shown capabilities to make stealth aircraft 12 years ago (MFI project). But probably it will be not capable to have range longer than 6000 km. Last of all, I can see that it is going to take a little time to make ICBM. India already sent many rockets to far above and also gained the technology to hit accurately with IRBM. Then what’s the resistance not to make ICBM! I think they are waiting to invent the technique to reduce it’s making-cost.

     If, if and if China attacks India immediately, they will not gain a huge something in here. India is ready to counter their army with Indian army, their Su-MK2 with Su-MKI (and other surface to air missiles). If they launch ICBM then we can use AAD technique. If Chinese military launch MIRV ICBM then surely it will be time to taste them with Agni 3.

     In near future India is going to make better resistance against submarines with P3 aircrafts (buying from USA) and inducting Sagarika missiles from 2010.

     So, I don’t think Chinese heads are so foolish to attack India. only USA and Russia can imagine that. But within 2020 it will be a dream also to them. Then none of these countries including India will remain unique superpower.

216. # Archer on 10 Oct 2009 at 7:02 am

     @Sidd
     The war won’t be a pushover, but I don’t know how you reached your conclusion.

     Haven’t you see the video of 2009 Parade of PLA on youtube? It is clear their weapons are more systematically designed and deployed. I really doubt India can win a conventional war using their assorted weapons bought from lots of countries. True that some aircrafts are better than those of PLAAF, however, do you really believe a group of Ninjia will win a well organized Roman legion?

     My information also shows that pilots from the two countries have very similar training hours in recent years. Indian pilots won’t be much superior unless Indian are smarter than Chinese. Finally, keep 200 LCA by 2020 out your argument. By 2010, I guess PLAAF will get 200 J10’s, and by 2020 they might have already deployed their stealth fighters.

     [quote]
     This isnt going to be a pushover 1962 war. The Chinese army will get hit bad. Do you know how pitiful the Chinese air force is? The chinese pilots have the highest count of shooting down their own aircraft during training. Did you know that the IAF is,technologically and training wise more superior than the PLAF? Technologically today the Indian armed forces are way more superior than the PLA. Numerically the PLA is greated and in infrastructure as well.

     1)125 Mig21- Bison
     2) 125 MRCA - Could be F16,Gripen or Rafael - depending on who wins the contract.
     3)100 Mig-27
     4) 54 Mig-29 Fulcrum
     5) 130 Su30 MKI Advanced multirole combat aircraft
     6) 50 Mirage 2000
     7) 104 Jaguar deep strike aircraft
     200 LCA Tejas production to continue till 2020.

     This is just the combat strength of the IAF. Any future wars will be won by complete air superiority. Now tell me that the war will be a pushover? Dream on.
     [\quote]

217. # raga on 10 Oct 2009 at 12:40 pm

     i just wanted to say one thing why should India-china go to war there is no need ,for sake of one part of the country or 2 parts of the country why should remaining areas suffer every thing will end peacefully.in my view India is developing in defense,space technology….. only because of china .one example only after china tested anti satellite missiles India alarmed,after china’s lunar mission India planned chandrayaan,planning to send astronauts to space .as long as china threats India we can see a stronger India.i can say Indians can say thanks to china because as india is feeling china as a thereat govt is building nuke submarines,aircraft carriers,planes .coming to pak it is been part of india for millions of years it is separated from india before 60 years one day or other both will excuse each other and come together indians must excuse pak and pak must excuse indians and should join hands for peace.i strongly say india should not
     become super power because why should one nation dominate other what is the need for domination one should life happily and let others live happily.if india and pak comes together i think there will be no work for usa and no friends for china in south asia

     jaihind

218. # gordon on 14 Oct 2009 at 12:09 pm

     i hope common sense will allow the peoples of asia live in peace if we allow western countries to drum up trouble its our peoples who suffer history tells us who are the argressors england rule india/burma/singapore/malay plus. columbus lands in america the native indians disappear what next india/china war west helps you pay back later. give peace a chance

219. # Ajay on 15 Oct 2009 at 8:07 am

     I,indian.. My opinion is a war couldnt take head one to another because of its streagth. if india and china war starts it will affect their Financial groth. Now current position china and india are the best developing economys in the world.

220. # ever4244 on 15 Oct 2009 at 2:21 pm

     @Chung
     Just a reminder: UNSC big 5 can never be given, it is earned, by tooth and blood.

     As in the case of China, Her seat was earned 1st: by 30mil human life sacrificed in the 8 year war against fascist Japan. 2nd: by tooth and snail in korea war reaching a stalemate against US force in its prime.

     Therefore, you should know that as a legal inheritor of ROC china, and a new power in the world order, PRC china has each and every rights to become a Big 5. We earn it by our sacrifice and our strength. If UNSC do not take china, we can build regional order ourselves. It is either give China the seat this way or the legitimacy and influence of UNSC will suffer a huge lose.

     By the way, a further enlightenment is:
     Nehru can not grant china the title of big 5, when he cannot earn one himself. India has been a push over, at most a democratic one. Neither has she made significant contribution to WW2 nor does she have the strength to shoulder responsibility of world order. In major decisions, she lack the will to counter balance the 2 super power.

     quote ‘Learn some history foolish person.’

     That the words I give back to you, because obvious you don t know damn about what you’re talking

     quote’ Chinese was an uneducated low class bully.’

     Unfortunately, we are the uneducated low bully really matteres in international politics now and then. And clearly your high class brahmin does not. We set examples to the back-forward nations in the world and prove in various battle that neither US or soviet are invincible. Our stance in the world counter balanced the two super power, holding up living space for some other small nations and project major influence to surrounding regions till now.

     ‘I think China need to rethink agression with India. Let India have Arunachal. And let Tibet be free.’

     Sadly, I cannot perceive any logical relationship between your family tragedy and china’s territorial stance. I don t care damn about what do you think of Mao, for I figure you have each and every right to hate him when he kill your family member just as I have each and every reason to like him because he give my family land(so they would not starve to death).

     What I cannot let you get away is your intentional favor toward india in sovereign territory as if india has any legimate on southern tibet. The slogan ‘Let India have Arunachal. And let Tibet be free.’ is contradictory itself. For southern tibet is culturely, geographicly a part of tibet per se. How can you stand by and let india annex southern tibet when you claim tibet should be free? I really doult how much commecial interests you are vested in with those indians or it is the hatred towords Mao make you mentally and physically blind?

     Speaking of territorial claim, china’s stance is strong and consistent regardless of regime in power. PRC’s claim is inherited from ROC just as ROC’s was from Qing. PRC’s stance will inherited by the regime follow suit depite of idealogy difference and government form. If you are trully a chinese ethnic as you claim to be, you should at least aware that the territorial space of china is the vital living space and communal resources of chinese now and future. PRC’s stance on border issue is not a CCP’s privite power plot, but a brave stand for the interests of chinese people as a whole. No matther what party inherit CCP in the future, democratic or undemocratic, we will not falter in defence of our land of sovereignty.

221. # NE on 16 Oct 2009 at 6:16 am

     In china vs India scenario, if war do happen, Chinese will win hand down. First because indians are good at talking and chinese are good at actions. Indians even claimed martial arts originated in India but i find only an indian can claimed like that. Their propensity to glorify their ancient past which is actually non existent considering there is no india literally. Indian are trying to glorifying themselves with false pride in a era which is unlike historical lets say the past 1000 years when they had been slave to British, Mongol (persianised Mughal) and muslims rulers.

     Now coming to Indians chant of feeling superiority (calling chinese product as cheap, 5-footer chinkis etc) has actually to do with race. In india presently, chinese look alike people viz. nepalis and people of North East India are discriminated and subjugated. Many of the nepalis worked like slave in rich upper caste indian homes. North East india State are actually suppressed using state terrorism via AFSPA, 1958.

     So if any indian had a bad day with the chinese they can always bashed a chinese lookalike and is really the case. Their feel of superiroty will continue unless these people are liberated or empowered.

222. # Pheonix9918 on 17 Oct 2009 at 8:32 am

     @Chung

     quote ‘It was Nehru who let China have a security council seat’
     Nehru can not ‘let’ china get a big 5 seat, when he did not have one himself.

     quote ‘China was not even invited to the U.N. in 1945′
     I doulbe if you know what you are talking, China (ROC regime then) was a major founding member of UN and certainly a big 5.

     quote ‘Learn some history foolish person’
     from the two blunders you just made, I highly doulbt have you ever made through your history lesson in high school.

     China’s seat in big 5 is not granted by some push over like india, it is earned 1st: by the 30mil soul we sacrificed in the war against facist Japan; 2nd by the blood bath in korea against US war machine in its prime. We earned it because we have proven ourselves to be a peace keeper in the old world and a major power in the new world.

     quote ‘Mao idealized by us Chinese was an uneducated low class bully’
     I don’t care what you personally think about Mao, for you have every right to hate him because he indirectly cause the peril of your family just as I have every right to like him because he indirectly give my family (so they would not starve to death)

     However, your personal hatred towards him does not justify your bullshit: quote ‘ I think China need to rethink agression with India. Let India have Arunachal. And let Tibet be free’
     The idea that ‘let tibet free and let india have southern tibet’ is contradictory itself, because southern tibet is geographicly and culture a part of tibet per se. Why this hatred towards china when keeping turning your eye away from india?

     China’s stance on border issue is not Mao’s idea or evern CCP’s power plot. It is inherited from ROC china, who inherited the sovereignty from Qing empire. China’s territory is the vital living space and resouces for the chinese generation now and future. Hence, PRC’s stand against india in 62 war is not a party power plot but a defence of the commual interests of chinese people as a whole. If your are trully a chinese ethnic you claim to be, your should be at least aware that despite of idealogy parity, any party in future, democratic or undemocratic, succeed in power would never give up our sacred land. If you are so shamed of china and so proud of india, an agressor and bully in southern asia, a push over in the world, why not join them?

223. # NavBharat on 17 Oct 2009 at 1:09 pm

     I wrote many times in this blog, but only few appearing and others not. I don’t understand why they were not successfully loaded or the blog owner just simply removing it?

224. # NE on 18 Oct 2009 at 5:00 pm

     India had given off india land in the past like Kabow Valley to Burma from the erstwhile Kingdom of Manipur which is a part of India now. The land given to Burma was almost 75% of the total size of Manipur, India. The people of Manipur are still angry over this issue but Nehru did it in the interest of India.

     Now as Nehru gave Kabow Valley to burma, why can’t the indians give away Tawang to China now to buy peace. Will Indians go to war for this peice of land.

225. # DesiGuy on 19 Oct 2009 at 12:14 am

     @ NE,

     Great Idea.

     we should give Kashmir to Pakistan and whole arnuchal pradesh to china.

     Oh, wait, anyone else left!!

     oh, yes, what about, Tamils, Bengali, ??

226. # Bruce Zhang on 19 Oct 2009 at 10:10 am

     Funny when I read these comments, so many Americans and such cutting in on this “argument” Between INDIA and CHINA.

     First of all, how many of you actually read books and articles?
     Second, about the “bravery” of 1/2 billion people
     -Not everyone wants to fight y’know
     -Not every one of them thinks like you do, (charge!! we don’t care about the people we are leaving behind!)
     -Who the hell is that violent, to take 500000000 and sent them to war?
     -sure, and I assume China would do the same? or get North Korea to help?
     Third. why must we discuss war?
     Fourth, If China shakes hands with India, there wouldn’t be much of a threat from USA.

227. # NavBharat on 19 Oct 2009 at 6:16 pm

     In the past history India was spread across from Hindu-Kush Mountain (Afgan) through Himalayas (Tibet) to Arakan Mountain (Burma). There will be a time in the future when God will send India a good, powerfull, Intelligent and charismatic leader who will restore back the old India and glorify it to raise the pride of Indians in this globe. At that time, those countries split away from India will be very eager to join back with us. At that time, China hands will be very much down and has no power to hold back Tibet with it.

228. # Dennis on 19 Oct 2009 at 9:12 pm

     Dear Gentlemen,
     Many participants of your blog are still using cultural and historical evidences and grieviences to puff up each nations pride. Man to Man all are equal if dueling hand to hand. The questions are not if a Chinese soldier is more courageous or and Indian soldier more dedicated, it is as a NATION who would win.
     It is true that China spends more on thier military than India but look at what they have to defend. They have a tremendous long border with Russia. Even if Russia swears not to stab China in the back, China will still have to leave some armies on their northern borders. China’s eastern coast supports their growing navies and have to be defended in case of an American/Japanese/Australian/New Zealand counter attack..even if imaginary! China also has to defend in the west against a U.S. drive into west China from Afganistan or Pakistan,…even if imaginay! China also has to keep surpressing its own poplulations which are diverse in lanquage and culture.
     Now due to the excitement and battle fears, commanders are likely to expend almost all of their super advanced technological weapons during the first 3 months of a conflict. The country that can re-supply its armies will have the advantage, since people are endless. Currently India does not have the ability to build its own tanks, planes or super ordinances. China can build tanks although not at the same level as the West…they can still kill you. Infantry with no tank support will even the enemy with crude tanks. Will there be many casualties on both sides, of course, but victories are not necessarially made by killing the enemy. Look at the U.S. in Vietnam, they killed thousands and made millions to suffer with very little loss to themselves and yet they lost. The Americans definition of victory was different than the North Vietnamese. What will be the definition of victory for China or India. Is it the annexation of a province or a piece of land? What if China unleashes a tremendous reign of nuclear missles on India and tens of millions instantly die, would that make India submit to authority in China? Could India first strike China and survive? Can they conquer the overwhelming lands and people of China? I don’t think so! How many people does it take to occupy a billion people? Hw do you supply an occupation army through such massive hostile terrorities? China can probably eliminate the Indian navies, if the Western navies don’t come to their aid. So with this threat, China has to be abl to do it quickly or leave a large proportion in reserve waiting on a western counter-attack.
     To make this work, the U.S. has to be busy in another war zone fighting for their lives, maybe in their own country. Either China or India has to be crippled by internal conflict or by nature. What if draughts in the interior of China caused so much food shortages that 100’s of millions of Chinese are starving and their armies have to turn on themselves….the same could happen in India. A tsunami on the Indian coasts could destroy the economy of India and they can’t support their armies. What if a Pakistani vs Indian war not only weakens both, terror attacks by muslims on Indian infrastures cause an opening for China to attack joint proviences on China’s border with India.
     In a make believe war, India can hold its own for about 3 months then the tide will turn against them from the constant pressures from China…Then India will collapse from within..in this make believe war no help is coming…China needs to reqroup its forces and supplies before the final kill….the last hope of India is lay down and die or use its nuclear forces. The Chinese will be hurt within and outside of India by such an attack but not defeated. However, India will be blasted back to the stone age never to recover during this century. Remember no other countries in the world are helping either side. This is an IMAGINARY WAR, with no other people on the planet caring about it. I don’t think any reader will believe that the whole world will sit by and not do something. In this case there are so many variables that it becomes World War III and now its a matter of which side countries take, I doubt it will be a free for all and billions of megatons of nuclear weapons have people with their thumbs on the buttons to lunch them. I have seen senarios of Eu and U.S. against Russia and China…I have seen a senario with the U.S. helping Russia against China. I have seen a senario that has China and the Muslim nations allying together to take on the whole world. It is anybody’s guess because every year the world’s politics change.

229. # Chinese Clan on 20 Oct 2009 at 12:52 pm

     By the way,
     the current population of
     India+Pakistan+Bangladesh+Sri Lanka+Maldives
     exceeds that of China.If India is never deliberately divided into
     fragments, India by right should be the most populous country on Earth.Who do you think the world would invest more if India is more populous than China?
     India of course due to its bigger market.
     Then India might be richer than China and have a more powerful military and economy than now .
     All the above-mentioned are just IF scenarios.

230. # sri on 20 Oct 2009 at 8:15 pm

     If any religion exists in india, china or any where in the world teach only one lesson that some day people will die. Even today great countries may become worse country tomorrow and vice versa.

     But the main issue is here happiness which only comes from the indivitual freedom and not because of freeing part of one country and attach with other. Unless achieving this every one is slave to somebody.

     Peace is the only mean to achieve the happiness. So when people does not think even about the peace they will never come close to internal happiness which is the basic nature for most of the people in India.

231. # Chindian on 21 Oct 2009 at 10:25 am

     Hi all,

     I am a Chindian of half-Chinese and half-Indian descent. I dream of a future where the yellow race and the black race will breed together to form a new super race known as the Chindians. This race will take the better traits of both races, and thus be much more intelligent, resistant, resourceful and stronger than ever before. The population of India and China will merge together to form the mighty empire of Chindia, demographically.

     Militarily, both countries will then merge their militaries together to form hybrid machines of war. Such an example will be a Chindian aircraft carrier that uses Chinese jet engine technology as a propulsion device, and Indian tank technology to implement giant turrets aboard the super carrier. Chindian planes will use propellors from Indian ships, and Chinese flamethrower technology. This hybrid military will be much more powerful than ever before.

     As for the economy, many economic centres will be merged and relocated, and subsequently renamed to cities like “Shang-cutta, Hong Delhi, Ben-jing” etc.

     Regardez Vouz

232. # Parminder Grewal on 23 Oct 2009 at 8:45 pm

     Just as an addition, I noticed someone talk about being convinced about Chinese air superiority after watching a PLA parade on youtube.

     I quote “Haven’t you see the video of 2009 Parade of PLA on youtube? It is clear their weapons are more systematically designed and deployed.”

     Good one, I laughed my ass off on that one. How the hell is that clear from the youtube video. I mean why do we need defence analysts and strategists when we have youtube. Think people before talking, think. Or you end up turning this discussion forum into a fantasy realm which in my view it already is. For godsake, get real!!!

     Besides, you guys should remember India has always been quite close mouthed about some of her abilities. No one had any inkling about the Indian Foxbats, where they operated, where they were used as spies. So dont judge militaries by publicly available information in either case, you’ll be way off mark. Once again, come out of the fantasy realm, get real

233. # Rahul on 24 Oct 2009 at 10:29 am

     We hear the west telling that Indians are lazy bums.This would not be a case if we had a communist government like that of china. This democracy is the only hindrance to our progress, since we are not able to channel our energies in one good direction. We have people of different origins in our country, but inspite of all this our economy is booming and in the right track. Its like managing several countries within a country.

234. # Parminder Grewal on 24 Oct 2009 at 8:18 pm

     @Dennis
     You just wrote a lot of bullshit and pulled number out of nowhere to decide which country will survive how much before collapsing. And when that was not enough you thought it appropriate to throw a bunch of natural calamities in there? Come on, this is not the script of a family guy episode

235. # Canada and proud on 25 Oct 2009 at 7:52 am

     My fellow country lovers …..When will you wake up and smell the whatever you people drink in the morning .

     For years now India has been “only” copying the west and any other advanced country out there . Your military was created by using other countries technologies , same as your navy and air force . You can’t hope to compete against a real foe in any war . The only thing you could hope for is the “wave” technique . Keep throwing everything you have at the advancing enemy and you might stand a chance is not how to win a war .

     Just stick to what you know …..running phone centers .

236. # Parminder Grewal on 26 Oct 2009 at 3:42 pm

     @Canada And Proud
     That’s great to hear coming from you. Canada: a nation that solely exists to kowtow to American policies(remind me the last time you differed with them on something significant) . The only border you have is with a nation that would kick your ass to take away your resources if you had anything but ice(I know canada has a lot of oil, but you guys anyway export it to the USA for processing so they dont have to snatch it from you). A nation formed by the systematic killing and slaughter of its native populace by immigrant populace. Sorry about being rude, but you called for it. Proud to be canadian huh, wonder if you’re from Quebec. O French Canada.
     So you guys can continue licking her royal majesty’s feet while we in India (and China) are a republic. So why don’t you go back to shoveling ice and stop making clever comments about a nation (either India or China) that has a rich history and civilization.
     In short, run, scamper, shoo away ….

237. # Sam on 26 Oct 2009 at 8:15 pm

     “NavBharat”

     What will happen to the inhabitants of the “greater India”, I wonder? Can they join or will they be ordered to run away? Do you really want a territory with very little natural resources like Afganistan where the inhabitants have created trouble for every invader (from Alexander the great) when they are not fighting among themselves? I feel that the main challenge that any Indian politician has is not to reconquer parts of the old “greater India”, but to keep the current India unified.

     “NE”
     Origin of martial arts:
     Sifu Paul Whitrod Phillip Zarellii (both are non-indians) feel that the chinese martial arts had their origins in the arts that prince Bodhidharma (Da Mao) took with him to China. Given the trade that existed in the olden days between the Malabar coast and China (and also Greece and Arabia), it is not impossible. However, the shaolin monks developed the art and kept on developing it, people like Pak Mei were still developing totally new styles some 400 years ago, whereas in India, it went on decline once the gunpowder weapons reached the scene.

238. # G.Vinod on 27 Oct 2009 at 7:34 am

     Canada and Proud
     The world’s first missile was used by an Indian King, Tippu Sultan, against the British
     during the Mysore war. It happened before 350 years and has also been recorded
     by the British historians. We can also say that other countries got inspired to make
     missiles only after this incident. When you talk about India, please think about your
     Country (Canada!!!). As far as the defence is concerned we know very well that you
     are purely at the mercy of the U.S for arms. Atleast we know to run phone centres
     and it’s better to do something rather than sleeping.

239. # Chinese Clan on 27 Oct 2009 at 10:38 am

     Indians,
     At least Canada is wealthier than India.Its people leads
     a good life as compared to India.Canada is not as powerful as India but it has lesser internal problems.
     Indi has got lots of problems.
     First missile used by Indian King?!But what’s the outcome?Still conquered by Britain.
     Martial arts originated from India?Before Bodhidarma
     the Shaolin Sage spreads Buddhist martial arts to China,
     China had already developed many more martial arts
     like Huangdi,Nanquan,Qiangong etc.Never heard of ?
     These kung fus now have branched into many styles
     after generations.Shaolin is just one of the many martial
     arts in China.I forgot Tai Chi.

240. # Sam on 27 Oct 2009 at 5:35 pm

     Though I agree with Vinod that Canada itself is using American F-18s and German Leopard tanks, I must point out that the Chinese were the first to use rockets as offensive weapons (500 years before Tipu Sahib). Genghis Khan then adopted them and this brought them to the attention of the Europeans. However, Hyder Ali was the first to successfully develop iron cased rockets, and following Tipu’s defeat in 1799, the British used the technology to develop the Congreve rockets. The proper missiles were developed by the Germans during WWII

241. # G.Vinod on 28 Oct 2009 at 10:26 am

     Chinese Clan
     We are here to discuss about military strength and not regarding
     peoples wealth. Atleast Indians fought against the British and
     got rid of them later on after Tippu but Canada is still happy to
     serve the royal majesty even today. India has an independent
     foreign policy but the same can’t be said about Canada, which
     is highly dependent on U.S/West for everything. It’s a pity that
     canada’s foreign policies are dictated by others. Regarding
     martial arts, have you heard of kalari/silambam? They are thousands
     of years old and originated in South India.

242. # Sam on 28 Oct 2009 at 1:29 pm

     “Chinese Clan: But what’s the outcome?Still conquered by Britain.”

     I am sure your statement can be said about any country including China and Malaysia. Canada, US and Australia were conquered by the Europeans. Britiain was conquered by the Celts, the Romans, the Saxons and the Normans. Europe herself was conquered by different groups of Europeans, the Huns, the Hungarians and the Turks. China was conquered by the Mongols, the Europeans (or do you not know about the Opium wars and the Boxer rebellion?) and the Japanese… the Japanese themselves were conquered by the allies in turn. The South East Asian region (which includes Malaysia) had been conquered by different groups including the Indians (Sri Vijaya Empire and the Chola Empire) and later by the British.

     By the way, should you try to claim that China was not conquered and the Divine Emperor still had a quasi-independent state in the 1800s and 1900s, then the Indians can claim the same because of the semi-independent “princely states”, all of which merged into India in 1947….

     We all live in glass houses and so should not thrown any stones.

243. # Archer on 29 Oct 2009 at 7:41 am

     @Parminder Grewal
     quote
     I quote “Haven’t you see the video of 2009 Parade of PLA on youtube? It is clear their weapons are more systematically designed and deployed.”

     Good one, I laughed my ass off on that one. How the hell is that clear from the youtube video. I mean why do we need defence analysts and strategists when we have youtube. Think people before talking, think. Or you end up turning this discussion forum into a fantasy realm which in my view it already is. For godsake, get real!!!
     /quote

     Two logical errors in your arguments. First, you are assuming on this forum people are either analysts or strategists. But my assumption seems more reasonable, many are emotional and irrational patriots or nationalist or even racialists. That’s why I speak of Youtube, such a naive media source, instead of Jane’s Defence Weekly. I am not defending, I just want to cool down some people with words they can understand at their level.

     Second, having something does not mean using it well, just as President Bush cannot use his power properly. I guess you don’t understand Chinese, or you are not a specialist in this area. The narrators blew out quite a lot physical parameters and functionalities of the weapons. Different models cover different shot range, have different mobility, and adapt to different theater situations - Artillery, missiles and aircraft are all designed in this manner. The show of AEW plane also hints PLA’s C4I system might have been well developed, given PLA’s conservative attitude to transparency. Compared to the US or Russia, though their system is at a lower level, it is a system anyway. What about India’s weapons. Almost all are imported from Russia and Europe, whose ideas are far away from each other.

     quote
     Besides, you guys should remember India has always been quite close mouthed about some of her abilities. No one had any inkling about the Indian Foxbats, where they operated, where they were used as spies. So dont judge militaries by publicly available information in either case, you’ll be way off mark. Once again, come out of the fantasy realm, get real
     \quote.
     Sure, no one knows what indians operated. Actually, indians don’t know either. Read the story of Arjun and LCA, which are as long as the ancient Indian history, I really don’t understand what they did. If interest, watch this, http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/ecuador_suspends_indian-built_helicopters.php. Another piece of publicly available information, but good for you.

     BTW, the remaining part are just a joke, none about this thread.

     No offense to Indians, a stereotype in my mind is that indians are more bigmouthed. Look at your indian teammates, many of them can make a super presentation even he doesn’t know what he have done. A interesting situation is that three Chinese developed hardly in a project, and finally the remaining indian guy stood in front of the powerpoint slides to report to his American boss. People from such two old and great countries come overseas to the US, and work for an American guy who don’t know history more than 200 years, even though this white boss’s grand grand father is an Irish farmer from Europe. These two employees always debate whose mother country is more powerful, when his American boss makes a big money from them.

244. # Sam on 30 Oct 2009 at 2:12 pm

     I was going through a DVD “Super fighters - weapons of War”, and they had a good review of the Russian-Indian Su-MKI, which uses thrust vectoring. There was also a comment that the authours did not know much about the Indian military hardware because of the secrecy. I agree with Archer, no government is going to disclose all details. I have a colleague from Belorussia, who had served as an officer in the military there. We were discussing about the wikipeida page on Mig-35s and he stated that the statistics are a lot better than what they had in the page.

     Indian military is fast catching up and has gone a long way from the state in 1947 when the army was armed with .303 rifles. In the case of the 1962 Sino-Indian war, not only was the PLA better equipped and led, but hardly any equipment was being produced in India, and the Indian military was still comparitively inexperienced. The PLA had gained experience during WW II, the Chinese civil war and the Korean war, whereas the Indian independence movement used non-violence, and apart from the troops in the Burma border (during WW II) or in Kashmir or Goa (which was more or less a walkover), they had hardly experienced any combat.

     I feel that (from what I have read) in the next few years, the situation may change considerably. Even though China is developing an aircraft carrier, in a few years time, India will have 4. I feel that if India needs to become stronger, then she should realise that she needs to stand on her own feet with respect to the development of military hardware. If not, she will always be at the mercy of the vendor as was observed during the development of the carrier Admiral Gorshkov. The indigenous development of the INSAS rifle and INS Arihant were smart (long due) moves. Once the HAL-LCA, the HAL-MCA, the 5th generation fighter, the Kolkotta class destroyers, the Surya missile and F-INSAS systems are successfully inducted (around 2020???), India might well be the 5th strongest power (when EU+UK is taken as a single unit…. if not, she might be the 4th power AFTER these changes are implemented). Not strong enough to win a war with China, but strong enough to take down China with her, and that situation itself should go a long way in preventing any future wars.

245. # Zishan on 30 Oct 2009 at 4:24 pm

     Hi All,
     It is very good post as it is timely to the rising political crisis between india and china. I dont think would try to attack or initiate cuz India is good dodging wars.. In Most of the cases the india was defendend then agressor in war. But war against china wouldnt best interst both the countries. As declartion of war on india would also bring other super power involved. For example if Russia support china or india then america would support the opposite. I love india, May be becuase i was born there.. i love it becuase of it secular then most of the western countries. Since i am musllim, the country has treated fairly. But yes due to some bad political elemenst they are bad incidents like Gujrat riots. No matter how powerfull weapon or technolgy in war each country has .. the victory would be with those who is decisive in battle.

     Regards
     Zishan

246. # Parminder Grewal on 30 Oct 2009 at 8:53 pm

     @Archer
     Your point:
     “First, you are assuming on this forum people are either analysts or strategists.But my assumption seems more reasonable, many are emotional and irrational patriots or nationalist or even racialists.”
     My argument:
     The naivety of participants in a field does not advocate the cause for irrationality in a debate. At the end of the day, my point still stands. The Chinese weapons have not been tested against Russian/American/Indian weapon systems. Hence making such statements about the Chinese weapon systems being better etc. are irrational.

     Your point:
     “I am not defending, I just want to cool down some people with words they can understand at their level. ”
     My argument:
     You cool people down by calling them bigmouths? nice!!!
     The question was a comparison of military strengths of India and China, not whether Indians are big mouthed or lazy or whatever else stereotype you have in your mind. If you desperately need to make some comments about Indians, go in some forum that is solely present to criticise Indians. I am sure there are plenty of lunatics who hate Indians, go join that group. I am here to make a sane rational argument on the topic at hand, not to read about unknown non entities remove their frustration about Indians.
     Your point:
     “Second, having something does not mean using it well, just as President Bush cannot use his power properly. I guess you don’t understand Chinese, or you are not ………………………………………………….. it is a system anyway. What about India’s weapons. Almost all are imported from Russia and Europe, whose ideas are far away from each other.”
     My argument: Let me tell you something about this world. “It isnt fair”. Everybody learns that, India learnt it too. During the 1960’s the five nuclear powers drew a line in time and decided all other nations who acquire nuclear weapons from now on will come under technology denial regimes. All the same, India was left without nuclear weapons and yet had significant territorial disputes with a nuclear neighbour. Not fair. India dealt with it, got nuclear weapons. Result: significant technology denial regimes. India has to develop weapons despite those regimes, so the dependance on weapon systems purchased from other nations. It is these denial regimes that cause Indian weapons development programmes to have significant delays. So at the end of the day, if India purchases superior weapons systems from Russia/Israel/USA/Europe, tough noogies.(just a point, but China is not exactly know for a great QC regime). Stop bitching about it, India pays for those weapons doesnt she. If i remember correctly, this argument was abt the military strengths of India and China not their sources.

247. # Yoyo on 01 Nov 2009 at 8:24 pm

     Oh! Come on. No more debates required. Apparently, Chinese weapons are far more superior to Indians. No question about that. Even the Americans and the Westerners were worrying and keep on monitoring to the Chinese new developed sophisticated weapons. They were not exaggerated the Chinese arsenals in purpose. They believed by not more than 30 years, the Chinese could be able to catch up with them. At least close enough. You better believe it because it is very true. By the way, some said many Asian countries were colonized by foreigners. So, tell me. Did any country is yet to be colonized or occupied? Apart from that, Martial art was originated from China, for God Sake. It was first called “Kung Fu” however the westerners’ keep calling it “Martial Arts”. Understood?

248. # dmo on 02 Nov 2009 at 9:22 am

     Democracies traditionally have owned dictatorships and freedom limited nations… freedom-less peoples have less incentive for fighting. I would not count out the fierceness of India’s military if involved in a conflict with a country like China. Plus, China’s numbers advantage do not necessarily hold up against a country with India’s population, and they may be able to mobilize a large force fairly quickly, and occupying India with a strategic force would be a logistical nightmare and near impossible. Ultimately it would come down to leadership and strategic vision, wmd’s would hopefully be unusable with both sides understanding the severity of the losses in that scenario (China would lose over 200 million people if just three of the largest metropolises were targeted and India would lose well beyond that). Deciding factors: who was the aggressor, strongest navy, and best strategy used.

249. # Sam on 02 Nov 2009 at 6:35 pm

     I do not think that the PLA can simply walk over into Delhi. As I pointed out, in 1962, a relatively better equipped and experienced PLA faced a relatively inexperienced and unprepared Indian military and won. However, in 1967, during the Chola incident, a chinese attack was pushed back with higher Chinese casualities. In 1987, another PLA movement was thwarted by the Indian Army.

     I admit that the 1967 and 1987 conflicts were relatively small and may not be correct indicators of the power of both of the forces. Unlike China, India cannot devote all of her troops to one frontier, if she does so, Pakistan and Bangladesh may use the oppurtunity to move it…. whereas, the relation between China and Russia are far more cordial. On the other hand, the Indian navy has limited blue water capacities and along with Thailand, has the only aircraft carrier in the area.

     Martial arts originated in China? Maybe you could provide some unbiased sources to support your statement. Frescoes in Crete and elsewhere demonstrate that boxing was popular in the mediterranean at least from around 1000 BC. Quarter staff fighting and the “gladiatorial school of fighting” were present in Europe till the 1600s. The Africans (and ancient Egyptians) have their own ancient forms of martial arts that are not well known. Silambam sticks (used in a martial art in South India) were among the trade items which were bought by the Greek traders in the Indian region till to the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Prof. Zarrilli suggests that Bodhidharma took some form of martial arts with him to Shaolin (source: Zarrilli, Phillip B. (1998). When the Body Becomes All Eyes: Paradigms, Discourses and Practices of Power in Kalarippayattu, a South Indian Martial Art. Oxford: Oxford University Press) and that later became Kung Fu. However, there is also a “chinese style of fighting” in Sri Lanka and South India. Possibly martial arts is as old as civilization itself and the different ones that we know of may be cases of convergent evolution.

250. # Pheonix9918 on 06 Nov 2009 at 5:35 am

     @dmo
     quote:
     [Democracies traditionally have owned dictatorships and freedom limited nations… freedom-less peoples have less incentive for fighting.]
     Come on, you indians just put too much on Democracy. Have you ever heard of a nation called prussia? Or did you forget how fierce the soviet or jap troops fought in WW2? The best soldier have always been produced by disciplined nations and certainly not nation like india.

     quote:
     [I would not count out the fierceness of India’s military if involved in a conflict with a country like China.]

     India, in my history teacher’s words, are one of the most ‘tender’ nation ever in the world.

     If you guys are that tough, you won’t be ruled over by a bunch of British, Mogul. Even in indepence, you won’t put up a decent fight against the British. Looking at how the other naitons fought for their freedom, I really wonder how can you guy endure your colonist for such long a time.

251. # johor on 07 Nov 2009 at 5:18 am

     @Sam

     Quote
     “I admit that the 1967 and 1987 conflicts were relatively small and may not be correct indicators of the power of both of the forces. Unlike China, India cannot devote all of her troops to one frontier, if she does so, Pakistan and Bangladesh may use the oppurtunity to move it…. whereas, the relation between China and Russia are far more cordial…”

     1967 is right before the Sino-Soviet battles over Damansky Island; 1987 is when Sino-Vietnam war was taking place in the northern states of Vietnam.

     Focuses of Chinese armed forces was always Soviet in the North, US-Japan alliance on the Esst, and to much less extent, Taiwan Straight. Resource was hardly deployed along China-India border. The documented conflict of 1987 along China-India border was between border patrols, nothing close to anything considered major military operations.

252. # Chinese Clan on 07 Nov 2009 at 7:42 am

     Yeah,Indians are very tolerant.The British controlled India by controlling its Mughal emperor.
     In China,the useless emperor was kicked out of the country and displaced from power because of incompetence.If the Chinese emperor is a foreigner’s puppet,his whole royal family would be massacred by the
     Chinese people.This is how Chinese thinks.

253. # Pheonix9918 on 08 Nov 2009 at 6:56 am

     To be honest, the indians do enjoy two advantages. 1st is the geographic advantage. Their front bases are generally in low altitude and therefore can provide all time close air support in the conflict zone. On the contrary, our air fields in tibet plateau cannot fully support our air fleet for the reaosn of high altitude and the operation time is limited by weather and season. 2nd, is they can buy all the newest stuff from russian or american. albeit relying on external sources means their diplomatic manuver space is limited, they do not have the globle ambition nevertheless. In a short, confined confliction in southern tibet, these factors are decisive.

     So, my thinking is the best theater of war may not be in southern tibet, instead, we should enjoy a better chance to crash indian force in a defence war near pakistan. Once we cripple their main forces, the southern tibet will be like a apple in fall.

254. # Yoyo on 08 Nov 2009 at 7:16 pm

     You should open your text book and start reading. Who the hell tell you “Boxing” is considered as martial arts??? Listen! dudes. If you do not know something, just stop fighting things you might not even understand. I do know sometimes jealousy could cause a people thought or spoke irrationally. Perhaps, one day you might say “Wrestling” is also part of martial arts too.

255. # sidh8 on 09 Nov 2009 at 5:58 am

     Hi to my knowledge India is going to be a superpower if it overcomes the corrupted problems that is swindling through the government. The next is it has to control the population, and try to improve the education or the health care benefits to poor families. Anyway no one can touch India, to say the truth if China tries to wage a war like what pakistan did with India, then India is not going to sit and watch the chinese soldiers come and enter into its land. India has modernized its weapon technology with the help of Russia, Isreal , France, and USA. Also the ministry of defense of India said that the Indian army budget is going to raise from $35 billion to $ 78 billion uptill 2012. Do you guys mean that if China wages a war with India, it is going to destruct India…… No brothers listen carefully India can not afford to loose another war with China which happened in 1962.. Indian army learned from its mistake, and I will assure you that with maximum army soldiers , ammunitions, airtellry, 4.5 generation aircraft, helicopters no one can enter into India. If the pakistan does not have nuclear weapons in less than one day India would invade pakistan in teach them a horrible lesson to fucking talibans
     and the chinese aggressors tooo…..

256. # Sam on 10 Nov 2009 at 3:24 pm

     Very interesting articles from the BBC

     http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8351813.stm
     http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8351439.stm

257. # PURE HAN on 11 Nov 2009 at 11:27 am

     I am a typical, humble and average Chinese. From the way I see it, Sino-India war in large scale is the least likely one should ever take place. Both are evenly matched in a lot of ways. Spending hell amount of money to defend a small plot of territory would be a foolish decision. Invasion to India? It never happened in the long history, and won’t happen in the future. Simply because there is a huge cultural difference between the 2 nations. Frankly speaking, 9 out of 10 Chinese ever been to India, felt uncomfortable with their culture and how it looks and smells. Invasion to China? No, Indian people are a big group of diversified races, a loose governship, not capable of launght and sustain a massive incursion.
     Democary and freedom? oh, that’s good to have for a country. We envy…… but this nation is not prepared yet. Do we want to follow the track of collage of Soviet Union???? At least, China still has a strong and efficient leadship!
     We do admire Indian’s talent of speaking English. It’s such a difficult languige for Chinese. Nowadays, Egnlish is the no.1 communication tool, and this make India got an edge toward China. We just have to pray to Buddah to give us the same languidge talent as he gave to his fellow. Luckily, we don’t have to speak English for all jobs available in China.
     Outsourcing? India is doing a lot of better than China. Indian engineers speak pretty good English. Chinese engineers get dumn in front of foreigners.
     Talking talent? We are amazed to see how much and how far topics can go with those Indian experts and commentators in their media recently over the topic of Sino-India tension! They made lots of prediction of war, seems like they are walking in a tale. There is almost nothing about this kind of topics in Chinese media. Because people here really don’t care about something that will never happen.

     Here again, India and China are 2 great nations, but too far away in race and culture. No need to lift of the arms and show muscels to one another!

258. # skg on 11 Nov 2009 at 8:33 pm

     “while the South Asian’s have traditionally licked the white race’s ass”. This is not entirely true. Infact the most powerful Indian empires like the Maratha empire and Tippu Sultan and the Gwalior Kings gave a tough fight for the British up until 1857. George Bush seems to have conveniently forgotten the real history of India. Infact, British really succeeded in India because of it being a super power at that time.
     Indians are intelligent like their chinese counterparts and it is a matter of time that India can bridge the gap with China. India always be a democratic country unlike China. I agree that at present, China is ahead of India in terms of military and economic strength.

259. # Reality Bites on 12 Nov 2009 at 8:43 am

     Some comments like India is not like what was in 1962, is really funny and pathetic. I see that India is more worst now than what was earlier. China gets about 100 medals in Olympic, India cant even afford to get 1 !. India’s poverty has risen from 29% to 37% last four years where as china has considerably reduced it to 8%. Most of Indian Bollywood films are either copied or Inspired from other sources. Indians are good in Cricket where matches are fixed to get a win for India which chineese do not indulge in. Thats the reason India dont get even a single medal in Olympic where there is no chance for fixing. China has developed its military to counter USA to get rid of its interference in Taiwan which it has achieved today. That means China is way 100 years ahead of India & India does not even come into picture of confronting China. India solely depends on USA, RUSSIA, FRANCE, Briatin and JAPAN where as China depends on none.

260. # Mohit Naithani on 12 Nov 2009 at 8:48 am

     i read world wide views about Inida and china. Yes India and china is one of the leading powers in Asia and we know that china developed itself so fastly rather than India. i saw the Independence prade in bejing (China) and i found that china shows the world that what is was and what it is.
     We all know that china Aquaire that land of Kashmir and land to Arunachal pradesh. China rapidly increasing their power and now the Question arise in our mind that why china try to show their power and whom china want to show it?

     Why china interfeas our internal political matters like china says that india should restrict Dalai Lama”s visit in Twang (Arunachal Pradesh). if any chinses read these last line then he/she should give the answer of it?

261. # Bobby on 12 Nov 2009 at 12:18 pm

     we are all aware about the latest circumstances between india and china, china isn’t our rival but our competetor. don’t compare with the armed forces strength and compare with growth, development basis because they are far away than indians and their government has no need to answer to their people they are strong enough in financial and millitary forces. at the same time indians growth also rising with all standards

262. # Nitin D on 14 Nov 2009 at 1:00 pm

     I read most of the comments, well war between china & indian is depend on the future circumsatances, there is only 1 percent chance of war as per present world scanerio. now its not so easy to attack on any country. India & china are growing fast, it a serious issue for western countries. economical condition are going to be worst in US & Europe, so they are affraid about the progress bar of india & China. here i appreciate the effort of china govt. to stop the population growth rate. In india it is difficult to implement the rules like china because of religious problem and so many other.

263. # sidh8 on 14 Nov 2009 at 7:28 pm

     To say the truth we are all aware of the work the Chinese army are showing to the Indian army. The Chinese army without any knowledge took 1/4th of Kashmir land just like the fucking porkistanies and say that arunachal once belonged to their country. Let them be aware of thier work becuase if they continue in this way the doomsday for thier country isn’t short. On one hand they call themselves a communist country by killing innocent buddhist monks, and the second problem is throughout the histroy tibet wasn’t a part of chinese eimpire. The moment Chinese earned a recognition during 1940’s by improving their stupid baseless army they began to conquer other countries greedly.

264. # Ramesh on 15 Nov 2009 at 12:58 pm

     In fact India and China are very much close to a war. china has 90,000 Sq. Kms. of Indian land ( arunachal Pradesh) in its control and they claim that it is not their own land. Where india boasts a victory in 1962, a few indians know the above fact. India and China and military power comparison cleary shows that China will have an upper hand in every war like situation.
     It’s time for indians to wake up, to make themselves strong, as it has become clear that China is sharing Nuclear technology with pakistan and IT IS CLEARLY BEING USED FOR MILITARY PURPOSES.
     As swami Vivekanand said, Utishthta, Jagrita:, stand up and don’t stop till you make yourself a super power.

265. # Sean on 16 Nov 2009 at 5:43 am

     You can’t just look at statistics and say that one country is better then the other. Yes China is a real powerful country, but it’s been a free country for generations. India on the other hand has only been a free country for fifty or sixty years now. India is really developing in comparison to China. Also India has already set up a decent government. It’s a democracy. People are willing able to vote for change. From the looks of it, China might not be a democracy ever. It’s ruled basically run by a bunch of business men and the military. India also has a better geography in terms of improving economy. If you ever looked at a Chinese map, you could tell that that all the merchandise producing cities are on the ocean coast line or close to it. Basically there on the far right side of China. If you look at a map, you could clearly tell that China’s bigger then India, but half of China’s covered by the Gobi dessert and the Himalayas. India’s land is mostly useful. I didn’t write this article because I’m a racist or biased, just remind some idiots that think there smart and start talking trash about other countries or cultures. Your to blinded by hatred to reach your hand out in friendship. I honestly think China’s really cool, and I’m not just talking about the food, I have some family there. Go Yao Ming.

266. # joshy on 17 Nov 2009 at 9:57 am

     hey guys,Its not a time to think of a war between india and china.If there is a war,the only happy people will be US and Europe.because their economy is struggling where Indian and chinese economy is running ahead.All this war histeria is created by western media out of fear for these two countries.Remember,the wealth today in Europe is all looted from India and China…..And definitely,the day is not far when these two great nations will take it back and restore the world in to peace.remember,neither india and China have been an agressor through out history,they always upholded peace for the world.truth always win,and that is what we are seeing.So we Indians and chinese and Pakisthani should realise these master plans and should work towards bringing back our looted wealth and back to the glory…..it is possible with Indo-Chinese-Pak confideration and free borders.some day it will be realised…….Jai Hind

267. # johor on 17 Nov 2009 at 5:00 pm

     As a non-Indian and non-Chinese person, Let me add some observations:

     1) Many Indians made racial remarks in various context in this forum, projecting an air of racial superiority. I remember an instance where I was with a group of Danishes and Ducthes and an Indian, and this Indian guy made a comment that Indians are also Scandinavians/Aryans. Not to debate that, but the fact was the Europeans got very uncomfortable and all walked away. Some of the Indians I know really think they’re white, and the fact that they think they are white made them very proud. A rather strange phenomenom.

     2) Most of the Indians in this forum seem to think that China has a consipracy plot to overtake India, but because of its fear of Indian military might or qualitative advantage, isn’t able to do so. But many books and defence journals all suggest that China or Chinese in general doesn’t place India as any kind of priority, and Chinese military resources are deployed targeting US-Japan alliance, Russia, Central Asia, and Taiwan theatres. Why Indian media of a sudden became so excited? Data and information suggest that however superior Indians believe their military is, China doesn’t really care about its neighbour in the west.

     3) Another observation is that frequently comments from Indians are talking about “now” but based on “future”. For example, “by 20xx, we will have xxx LCAs and MCAs, xxx 5th generation fighters, xxx ICBMs, xxx nuclear submarines… will teach China a lesson…”, “by 20xx, Indian economy will be number x in the world, and will xxx to China…” Clearly, the assumptions is the world will sit in still, waiting for India to become a superpower. Another rather strange phenomenom.

268. # nitin on 18 Nov 2009 at 3:30 pm

     Dear All,

     1. Am sure both India & China know very well that war will not be good for both the countries.

     2. No doubt that we ( india ) are behind China’s Economic & Military power. We need to work on it, not for the war but to have a state of equilibrium in Asia.

     3. Browns ( Indians ) & Yellows ( Chinese ) have to understand that these Whites ( US + Europe ) are nobodys friends. They will always try to take advantage by creating differences between India & China.

     4. Infact India & China should learn from each other and co-operate in various fields for mutual development. Traditionally we are close and we should be much closer.

     5. India needs to think over its Foreign Policies and work for stronger ties with Russia & China, that is where the future is. We should take Middle-east too into confidence.

     6. We need to understand that the combined domestic markets of India, China & Russia would be so strong that we need not even look at US & Europe ( which are already going down hill ).

     We must work for the unity between India, China & Russia.

     Enjoy your lives

     Cheers !

     

269. # RandomChineseBot on 19 Nov 2009 at 9:59 am

     Take note that Russia would not always be an ally to our two nations. Self-interest is always evident.

     And of course, people say that man of a similiar blood bond better together… everything is uncertain, including one’s own government. It is best to rely on ourselves, and ourselves only.

     It is encouraging for signs of friendship in those comments here though.

270. # Yoyo on 19 Nov 2009 at 5:32 pm

     I was shocked by some American Indians are being so defensiveness to their mother land. However, they chose to abandon their origin, India. I am not saying they are traitors, but should or should not they draw their most attention to their country at present? Do not get me wrong, I am not criticize them but at least they are living in such a democratic country, should they be more realistic? In fact, I have Indian friends living in America and they are borne there too. They have to accept the truths and admitted in Asia contingent nowadays, no matter in economy and military comparisons, China is no.1. Even the Japanese also admitted they could no longer retain as the World No.1. In Asia, China has surpassed Japan to be the only leading powers in the region in terms of their economy and military strength.

271. # Yoyo on 19 Nov 2009 at 5:48 pm

     I mean the Japanese also realized that they are no longer being able to retain its leading power in Asia. They knew they have to face the mean reality to become the 2nd leading power after China. This is how the majority of the Japanese feels except to the some radical sides in Japan.

272. # nitin on 19 Nov 2009 at 7:00 pm

     Dear RandomChineseBot,

     Good to read your views. My observation on it is that if we all become “self-centered” ( sorry for using this word ) then we all will go no where. This will lead us to mis-trust the others forever, correct me if i am wrong. Which is no good for any of us.

     With collective efforts ( even if the effort is small still we should do ) only we can contribute to make the world a better safe place for generations to come.

     We need to trust others & think positvely for the future.

     Writing in this blog is my small effort for doing so.

     Cheers !
     

273. # Yoyo on 20 Nov 2009 at 6:06 am

     Excuse me???!!! You Indians are black, not brown. Now you see? You can’t even differentiate your skin color types appropriately. How could you possibly analyzed the situations and to compare between China and India accordingly? What are brown skin people? They are namely, Malay, Thai, Philippines and etc. Mostly live in South-East-Asia. Got that?

274. # Yoyo on 20 Nov 2009 at 10:08 am

     And for those living in South-America are also considered as the brown skins too, such as Latinos. Sometimes, I do understand it is shameful their color skin is not good-looking as to others. So they come out with some sort of techniques, which is best known as self-consulate manner to protect themselves.

275. # Yoyo on 20 Nov 2009 at 10:11 am

     No misunderstanding. I am not saying the sexy brown color skin type.

276. # Parminder Grewal on 20 Nov 2009 at 8:59 pm

     For some reason, the last few of my comments have not shown up here. Maybe its some website issue or have I ticked off the big guy here? Hope not, you have a good discussion going on here
     @Johor
     There will always be a few people who have wrong notions about race and caste but most Indians don’t know or care about the Aryan race. We do take pride in our rich culture and heritage. I guess that’s true about every country, you always find some trolls with misguided beliefs and chest thumping pride about something that’s not even worth mentioning. My advice: don’t judge all Indians by the actions of a few.

     The reason why Indians may “seem paranoid” about China(in my view they aren’t, we need to fuss about our security) is that China has recently made some drastic changes in its policies on many issues like Kashmir (issuing visas on separate pieces of paper than on the Indian passport), Sikkim (which had been resolved as per them), excessive fuss over Arunachal Pradesh(blocking development funds at IMDB, objecting to Dalai Lama’s visit (China had not done so on an earlier visit)). These changes are obviously raising eye brows of Indians who have not forgotten 1962.

     The fact that China does not care about its southern (western??) neighbour is plain incorrect. China is solely responsible for nuclearisation of Pakistan by providing them with materials, technology for the same. These technology transfers were generally provided knowing fully well that their target was India. This was done with blatant disregard to the NPT to which China was and is a signatory. So trusting China becomes difficult for India and for the international community in general.

     Among other things, China had been actively blocking the banning of some Pakistani anti India terrorist organizations despite clear evidence of them being so. China also is actively blocking India from obtaining uranium from Australia by coercing the Australians who unfortunately have fallen prey to such policies. I have a long list of recent Chinese anti India activities that do not affect China in a any way but hamper Indian interests significantly. A simple google search will confirm most of my statements.
     I have mentioned all these just to disprove an earlier statement here that China has no interest in India and that Indians are being paranoid.

277. # Shalabh Shukla on 24 Nov 2009 at 10:37 am

     I think the political condition of India is not good because og Corruption into the systems. Indai has lot of natural resourses than China but we don’t want to know how to utilise properly,WE have good brain and excellent talented people but our Government not pay much more attention to develop new Technologies . Thats why we are not compitant to China

278. # Parminder Grewal on 25 Nov 2009 at 2:17 am

     @Yoyo
     First of all, your comments are plain racist and in a disgusting manner. Secondly, Indians have a wide pallette of skin colors. People from Indians states of Kashmir, Punjab, etc generally have fairer colors, Indians from southern states are on the darker side. That is not to say that any color is better. This is just to widen up your horizon.
     Besides a lot of people living in South East Asia are from India, Indians kingdoms ruled these places once, so there obviously are people of Indian origin there.(so your assumption that South east Asians are very distinct from Indians does not hold, talk about analysis? how about you take lessons in history first kiddo) In fact Indians do not have one identity in race, we come from all races and colors. From childhood we are taught “Unity in Diversity”, that means Indians may have various origins in terms of color, race, religion, linguistic background etc. But we are Indians all the same.

279. # PURE HAN on 26 Nov 2009 at 10:34 am

     @Nitin

     I agree with you, cooperation a lot more beneficial to both countties than fight with each other.
     We have a long history of good relation, must of it connected with Buddism. Why not keep it good for now and for the future?
     Spending thousands of lives and billions of money into a war, which is just for a remote unknown piece of land. You don’t really have to be smart to figure that out if it’s worth it.
     I do hope leaders of our 2 nations are calm and smart enough, not to be lured by some stupid people domestically and internationally.
     I am just worried there is too much hatrism inspired by Indian media and extremists.
     To most Chinese, it’s unimaginable to have a war with India, because India is so far away, and they look peaceful and like a Buddah. Very adorable when they dance.
     Also feel sorry for enormous poor populations in India, that you have a government spending much of budget in military, building and buying expensive weapons, aircraft carriers, only with an fancy imagination that India should surpass China in the future. Look at your poor people, broken and muddy roads, slump residentials. USE MONEY WISELY.

280. # chinesegoldfarmer on 26 Nov 2009 at 10:36 am

     As a Chinese living in Canada I have to admit that Indians are a lot more rational than us. In fact I see more Indians criticizing their country instead of blindly supporting India (something Chinese should learn…). However, a war between China and India, according to each’s current economic and military strength, would definitely end in China’s favour. I think many are probably aware of that as well. Sino-indian wars aside, how many battles did Indians participate against the dominant west in the 20th century? Against Uncle Sam? China managed to draw with the US-led allied forces in Korea and actually defeated the Americans in Vietnam (Viet-cons would have gotten run over for sure if China didnt participate). After the battles with the Americans the PLA engaged numerous times with the backstabbing Russians and showed no sign of inferiority despite been outclassed both in terms of weaponry and support. Please correct me if I’m wrong but Indians on the other hand didnt seem to have much experience dealing with opponents stronger than themselves…

     By the way for those who think China and India would merge, KEEP DREAMING!

281. # Chincx on 27 Nov 2009 at 12:57 pm

     I do agree with Parminder Grewal. China was the nation most upset by India’s 1998 nuclear tests.
     China was suspected to be nudging Pakistan to nuke India under one pre text or other. The possibility of a serious retaliation by India has made things complicated for them. China has been recently trying to cow down India even without firing a single shot. India gave a befitting reply in the Dalai Lama issue. So China wants to arm twist India using Pakistan. Also, China knows too well that they cannot have an emphatic win in any direct conflict south of Himalayas. Their best bet would be to shift the theatre of war away from its borders to the western border with Pakistan.
     China is not going to stop needling India until India develops sufficient strength to bring China down with it, in case of a conflict. If Pakistan attacks India with Chinese gifted Nuclear weapons, then China itself should be targeted for retaliation. That balancing factor alone will sober them up.
     Until that day, there will be no peace in South Asia.

282. # johor on 27 Nov 2009 at 4:24 pm

     It’s really shocking and even horrifying to hear so many of Indians suggesting having a war with China and resorting to nuclear option. “nuke China”, “sufficient strength to bring China down… If Pakistan attacks India with Chinese gifted Nuclear weapons, then China itself should be targeted for retaliation”, etc. It is just unthinkable that Indians are facsinated with their nuclear weapons.

     Let’s look at facts. Assuming nuclear weapons are lobbed at each other between India and China, who will suffer more? That depends on pre-empt strike capability, payload per delivery, accuracy, range, number, sustained second-strike cacapbility, and on and on. So, who has more mature capability of precision-strike for pre-empt, who has known capability of delivering miniaturized war heads, who has wider spectrum of delivery vehicles, who has the range advantages and options, who has land-mobile, sea-based, and long-range air 2nd strike capabilities, who has both broader tactical and strategic nuclear weaponries… the list goes on and we all know the answer. Well, who is going to come out, if at all, as a winner? In my opinion, no one.

     I understand the need for feeling proud of having a some sort of nuclear device, but please don’t get fanatical about it. I live in Asia, and do not want to see nuclear clouds emgering in any direction close in Asia.

283. # Yorker on 27 Nov 2009 at 9:06 pm

     I think China is way too stronger than India. China is capable of distroying India anytime.

284. # Yoyo on 28 Nov 2009 at 8:57 am

     Ok. You Indian people have the right to creates and developing nuclear weapons, no matter the world have strongly against to. How about Pakistan? Why Indian people always blaming China for assisting Pakistan to build their own nuclear arsenals for self-defense? What’s wrong with you people? Does India still think Pakistan is part of India? Pakistan was a fully independence country and he has its rights to protect themselves. If Pakistan has first build their nuclear weapons, then how would you Indians feels? Nevertheless, please do not mix up to the situation between China and Taiwan. Taiwan was part of China. History has proved it and everyone’s know that. To be fair, if one country has the right to own theirs nuclear arsenals. Any country could develop theirs. But they should develop it wisely; with no threaten to their neighbors or other country.

285. # chinesegoldfarmer on 28 Nov 2009 at 9:35 am

     @Parminder

     Unity in diversity is not neccesarily a good factor. Pakistan is a good example of what side-effects of having various different people living on the same land with different colours of skins or religions may have. I have heard from many of your Indian brothers up north telling me racism against other Indians is quite prevalent back where they come from(dunno if its true). In case of an actual war, perhaps China’s homogenenous population is more advantagous than the seperate groups of people all calling themselves Indians but living under different conditions or rules

286. # david on 30 Nov 2009 at 1:43 am

     Indian can only dream about Chinses economic and military strength success.

     Wake up India and be real and see life of poverty and paper military force.

287. # Yoyo on 30 Nov 2009 at 6:17 am

     It was joke when most Indians thought once they have being attack or directly link to a war. Indians feel their so-called friends, such as the US, UK, France, and Russia will aid them. You can still dream, but never count on them. They will never help you unless you give what they asking for. Do not think you Indian people bought those imported toys meaning they will help you, NEVER. Keep dreaming!

288. # G.Vinod on 30 Nov 2009 at 10:19 am

     Yoyo
     If Pakistan had developed nuclear weapons without Chinese help
     then there is nothing to complain. But a Pakistani nuclear scientist
     has recently acknowledged the fact that they were technically aided
     by the Chinese, in building the nuclear weapons. China, which is a member
     of NPT and boasts of a responsible nuclear power has infact cheated
     the whole world by guiding the Pakistanis to build nuclear bomb. Now
     the Pakistanis are trying hard to safeguard their nuclear bombs from
     going into the hands of terrorists. Even the U.S is not sure whether those
     weapons are safe and now we hear that Pak President has given control
     of them to the Prime Minister. So all these confusions may help the
     terrorists in taking away with some bombs/plutonium/uranium out of the
     stock. This is our main concern because those stupids may use it against
     India and even Pakistan (China too may face some threat) India is only
     bothered about nuclear proliferation and not about others producing nuclear
     weapons.

     “To be fair, if one country has the right to own theirs nuclear arsenals. Any country
     could develop theirs. But they should develop it wisely”
     Then why did Chinese voted against Iran’s nuclear programme, in the U.N last week??
     If China can have nuclear weapons and pass on the technology illegally to other
     countries then why can’t Iran develop weapons with their own resource???
     India too voted against Iran and it’s because we fear it may go into the hands of
     terrorists in future.

     And lastly, don’t post racist comments.

     Yorker

     There won’t be a winner in case of a nuclear war and we don’t want it to happen.

289. # David on 01 Dec 2009 at 3:29 am

     @yoho
     I do like your letters and agree with your views.

     India is a big bully of the region and all its small neighbouring countries are frightened, but Pakistan see India eye to eye which Indians don’t like it and they come up with pathetic excuses like China helpped Pakistan with nuclear weapons and terrorist.

     India stop bullying your smaller neighbouring countries and pick on your own size and lets see how good your!!!!1

290. # G.Vinod on 01 Dec 2009 at 7:38 am

     Yoyo
     The majority of Indians know that U.S, U.K, France will never aid us in case
     of a war. We also know that the American interest towards India is linked on
     the Indo-U.S nuclear deal. But the Russian aid continues for over 50 years and
     if you remember the fact that when the U.S/China were aiding Pakistan during
     Indo-Pak wars it was the Russians who supported us. Today the situation may
     be different but still Russia is our trusted ally.
     India has banned importing Chinese toys because they are coated with
     highly toxic materials. Better you Chinese manufacture safe toys/baby milk
     power and avoid killing your own babies.

     David
     India is not dreaming about Chinese economy or military success. Indians did
     not ask for your advise and hence stop worring about us.

291. # Parminder Grewal on 01 Dec 2009 at 11:50 pm

     @YoYo
     “What’s wrong with you people? I request you to stop making such statements. They are provocative and make argument forums like this lose their civility. Which people are you referring to, Indians? Well I may inform you that nothing is wrong with us. That’s that and Ill ignore further racist and inappropriate comments by you. What you are doing here is called as trolling.

     Quote
     “Indians feel their so-called friends, such as the US, UK, France, and Russia will aid them. You can still dream, but never count on them. They will never help you unless you give what they asking for. Do not think you Indian people bought those imported toys meaning they will help you, NEVER. Keep dreaming!”
     Unquote
     Nobody can predict who will get support from whom buddy. You never know

     Also, Let me be very clear that I had not objected to Pakistan having a nuclear arsenal. All I objected to was China aiding Pakistan in developing such weapons in contravention of her obligations under NPT to which she is a signatory.

     @Johor
     I agree with you fully. Wat u just described is shortly stated by the term MAD. Its the best pun of an acronym ever. Luckily those discussing on this forum arent those whose hands make these decisions, so you can relax!!! We are talking about two mature countries that have airtight control on their systems and know the consequences of their actions.

     @chinesegoldfarmer:
     Thats maybe in some cases(Pakistan’s populace is pretty homogenous when compared to India’s btw). But look at other cases. For eg Canada and the United States hardly have homogenous populaces, but all the same they are strong from within and without. Fron what I saw growing up, India is heading towards a strong, united country as her education system itself will make sure that her citizens are patriots to the zenith. There will always be some problems or hiccups but eventually she should emerge strong. Atleast thats what I hope!!!

292. # Rahul on 02 Dec 2009 at 4:06 am

     In a conventional war scenario it is difficult to predict what the out come is likely to be between China and India.
     China will definitely gain ground in the Himalayan region but would have limited success once on the Indian plains.
     This would be due to pure logistical reasons with Chinese supply lines getting over stretched and Indian forces having the advantage of acting on home terrain.
     Of course the above discounts the reaction of the global players… especially action on part of Pakistan, Russia and US. These countries may actually be drawn into battle (and this is not an over stretch of imagination).

     But then again who so ever thinks a conflict between China and India will be a conventional one is too naive. Conflicts between unequal adversaries are never conventional… was not in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan (FATA) etc…

     Only one likely scenario can emerge if the war remains purely conventional… China will have a limited engagement with India, will capture Arunachal, some bits in Uttranchal, parts in Kashmir… will declare cease fire… leading to UN arbitration and stalemate.

     Two scenarios if Chinese govt goes out of its mind and extends the war over time and space…
     One, India will respond with covert guerilla operations behind enemy line and hold up Chinese advances at strong defensive positions…
     Result: Stalemate and Chinese withdrawal to the Himalayan regions after, say, a couple of months or a year at max. Indian economy will be badly hit, political changes with more radical elements but a democratic set-up. Chinese economy would also be adversely affected; exports will be affected due to reallocation of resources to defense, coupled by some trade sanctions.
     Two, India will go gaga and nuke China (more likely if the Right winged parties are in power at the time)… world stock markets would melt into thin air… Chinese economy will be rocked with losses like HK and Shanghai… there will be one big ocean where India once used to be… nuclear fall outs… major health hazard all over the region.

     The above is pure DAY DREAMING…
     The REALITY: At max there will be border skirmishes between China and India resolved to a stand still through local military level border flag meetings… no WWII like engagements, or treaty of Versailles… no modern age nuclear holocaust and global recession.
     The reason is there is really no conflict of interest between China or India for either of the two to throw into the wind their economic drive. Both China and India are ruled by economic rationalists with varying degree of corruptness. Both have some of the largest number of billionaires (read the people in the power driving seat) who have too much invested in the stocks… None will ever want to rock the boat.
     Even if faced by deep global recession and slump (like the great depression) neither India or China would like to get into a war economy to drive growth by engaging with each other… at best both might look to the lucrative African or Af-Pak market and try to compete with the US in supplying wares for local level, sustainable, warfare in such bleak god forsaken places…

293. # manish singh on 02 Dec 2009 at 10:04 am

     I think that America never wants these two country to live in peace. They sell their weapons to earn money, if India and China are united their source of income will be a loss for them. But i personly feel that there should be no war between India and China…..and i pray to God Shiva that it should not be happen……admit that 1962 talk smart our heart because at that time we were stabed dagger into our heart…..but now we are intelctul enough we want peace with China ………if the so called BRIC take place, we are in commanding position…..here i am not agreed with some view that indian are lazy and dull indian work hard in their repective fields …education, farming, enginerring etc…..may be some are lazy but not all ……i thank some of foreign comment and their lovely remark about povery ……u comment so and we improve ….i felt that some comments are instigating …against china ……but now we want peace with every country……and remember we are strong enough to protect our nation……I WANT CHINESS BROTHER TO GIVE US A CHANCE TO SAY ONCE AGAIN “INDIANS AND CHINISS ARE BROTHER”….. to conclude i say that west power’s ara is gone its our BRIC era…….and i would say that do not comment anything which smart our heart……..jai hind …..vande matram….bharat mata ki jai….

294. # Wellwisher on 03 Dec 2009 at 12:00 pm

     It sounds like the Australians do not like the Indians. The reason I guess is noithing but Jealous. I heard recently that there are many Indians got attacked in Australia. This lazy ass australians do not want to work. But the smart indians are getting education and as well as earning money part time. It is making the Kangaroos jealousy. Regarding China, they are fucking crooks and want to destroy India using any nasty tricks. They are just fucked up. Their No#1 ally is Pakistan , thje world’s N0#1 terrorist country. I agreed that China is far ahead than India. But I really Wish if it was in a reverse situation!! India is always with Justics and following Democracy all the time. China and Pakistan has tried to provoked India many many times and India is trying to control their emotions to avaoid a clash in between the countries. But it will not happen all the times. All over the world know that chinees products known as Cheap chinees shit…. Some of the guys from Australia, UK and US who were accusing India in means of Poverty and other stuffs, it is just because of Jealous.
     This whites has only got their color..Just understand this my friend… You got your color and it is not because your skills..Ok..You have nothing to proud of…

295. # Wellwisher on 03 Dec 2009 at 12:05 pm

     Also I am agreeing India’s problems such as poverty and basic infrastructure…But you white peoples do not need to worry about it .Ok…It is the problems of Indias and they know how to resolve it…Indians are not coming to you guys as beggers…I don’t think China will attack India all of sudden…India had the Nukes and they can use it any time regardless the first use of Nuk Weapons. I don’t see anything wrong in using against the country like China.
     India has to start manufacturing their own quality weapons pretty soon instead of depending western countries.
     Good BYE..

296. # Samon 04 Dec 2009 at 11:02 am

     We really shouldn’t be talking about wars here. The two large countries have coexisted peacefully for thousands of years( except that little war 50 years ago), and this never happened to any other large civilizations in the world. Why war? It’s a stupid idea.

297. # Samon 04 Dec 2009 at 11:29 am

     response to Look to India. By: Johnson, Paul

     The author’s article can be summarized in one sentence: He doesn’t like China and really wishes China to loose. Period. What a joke essay. Can’t believe it’s called Academic Research Premier.

298. # Yoyo on 05 Dec 2009 at 11:15 am

     One said China had voted against Iran for building their nukes. Before that, I said any countries have their right to produce their nuclear arsenals. True. BUT, in this case, it was a little complicated. As you said, under NPT, China has no choice but has to vote oppose Iran nuclear programs. The situation was comes after the tragedy of September 11. Do not get confused because when the time China had assisted Pakistan, it was a long time ago. Today, the UN was only worrying the possibility of terrorists from getting nuclear arsenals. Iran has to consider her unlucky because she has chosen the wrong time to develop its nuclear programs.

299. # Alex Kwan on 06 Dec 2009 at 12:32 am

     I am a Hong Kong Chinese.

     I think it is really meaningless to compare military strength between two countries according to ‘official’ statistics so I will not comment on the same.

     It’s also meaningless to discuss the origin of rockets and kung fu AND also SKIN COLOR etc…. People of a country can be humble even with a bright history, but also can be so proud out of nothing, on the other hand.

     Both India and China are old, rich culture and blooming countries. I believe that if both countries are led by prudent government, no war will be broken out. As many commentators in this blog mentioned, both Chinese and Indian shall work on its own problems instead of fighting each another. I agree that the western countries will be very happy to see disputes of any kind between India and China.

     Personally I have several Indian ex-colleagues and classmates. Be very honest, I am not that so comfortable with most of them (due to cultural differences ? I don’t know. I dont’ want to provoke Indian friends here so i skip all adjectives). But at the very least, they are not really bad people. On the other hand, I have came across some Chinese colleagues who are lazy, cunning and evil.

     So, please don’t be prejudice by the race.

     Anyway, as long as I am living happily and safely without worrying about war and starvation, I don’t really care whether it’s Indian, China or Japan is #1 in Asia.

     @yoyo
     People are free to express their views, but please stop your nasty racists and provocative speeches. It’s really disgusting (sorry to say that) for you to write something like that. I am of the view, honestly, that you are writing something groundless, contradicting and insulting. It’s true that some people in this blog (especially some Indian friends here) are having bias strong and aggressive views, but at least have some kind of courtesy !

300. # mongoloid on 06 Dec 2009 at 7:52 am

     hey, i am from North east (india). i think human right condition here is not good.

     we want total freedom from bloody indians..

301. # Alex Kwan on 08 Dec 2009 at 10:35 am

     @Wellwisher

     With respect, both Indians and Chinese are smart. There are “fucking crooks” in every countries who want to destory their imaginery ‘enemy’. I don’t know the situation in India, but in China and Hong Kong, ALL Chinese around me just don’t bother such kind of things at all regarding India . We are not ignoring India, just simply think that India is not our enemy. In fact, at least myself respect India and Indian culture. I really don’t understand why (as I learned from western media) the numerous Indians who are so aggressive against Chinese.

     Btw, it’s clear that China’s No#1 ally is NOT Pakistan and that the world’s N0#1 terrorist country is not Pakistan. I understand the hate between India and Pakistan, but I do believe that China-Pakistan alliance is China’s reaction to the containment of the United States and Western countries. That means, if Indian and Chinese hate each another due to China-Pakistan alliance, then such Indian and Chinese fell into the trap of Western countries. Please consider it very carefully my Indian friend. In fact, according to my limited history knowledge and understand, severance of Pakistan and India is also a trick played by Western countries (Correct me if I am wrong here).

     I feel shameful myself for some of the shit Chinese products. Yes. That’s correct, some of the Chinese products are really really shit products and even Chinese people suffered themselves. But please also note that many of Chinese products are of high quality (otherwise it is unreasonable for so many brand comes to China and set up factories there. Cheap labour is a reason, but the labour in India is cheap too, why not choosing India ?). I am not saying that good products can setoff bad products. I just hope that you could consider the whole picture.

     Finally, I don’t think any Western people are jealous of either Indian or Chinese. They are sort of, well, proud of themselves maybe out of their history culture and domainance of the world in the last few centuries. Based upon their proud, a few of western people simply discriminate coloured people.

302. # Yoyo on 08 Dec 2009 at 11:21 am

     If you can’t accept anything I posted. It is your problem then. Why not you just ignore what you think you can’t accept and post up your own comments. Did I offend someone’s? I guess not. I do tolerate people criticized me, but just don’t ever call me ‘racist’. It is indeed absolute arrogant and impolite. It is a mean word and it is worse than using foul language to scold someone’s.

303. # Derekon 08 Dec 2009 at 3:18 pm

     China and india have risen up to challenges of modern day world. China and India should work together and continue to build and what they have acheived thus far. Both countries have enormous potential in terms of space exploration, technology, manufacturing, trade etc and should work cooperatively to achieve even more than what could be expected. There is talk about a possible war. Friends who will be the winnner not China or India because they will have so much to lose and the setbacks would be enormous. There are ountries that would be only too happy to sit back and watch two emerging superpowers go to war so that they could once again continue with world dominance. Chinese are a honorable people and they have much to offer to mankind so are the Indians. One has to admire these two nations helping countries in Africa. A united China and India will ensure growth in Asia and the world as a whole. A CHINDIA peaceful relationship and future is critically and vitally important for the world. God bless you all. Derek Govindasami from South Africa

304. # Yoyo on 08 Dec 2009 at 5:36 pm

     I may not be knowledgeable. But I am willing to learn and learn. Some Indian friends commented their proud of the skin colors and races in their country; they can share their diversity, harmony, and economy wealthy ness in order to bring their country in peacefulness or stability. Similarly it does happen to Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei and even China too. Nevertheless, I am talking about the skin colors in India. Majority were black. Of course, there are other races living in India as a whole. In fact, we knew it already. Needless to say, you should not keep reminding us. To Indian friends, you should not over-react. Calm down. If what I have said here may have offended to our Indian friends. I am here to apology.

305. # TandooriChicken on 16 Dec 2009 at 7:59 am

     China is 1 or 2 generations ahead in military strength against India. The capability & modernity of nation military can be demonstrated by the ability to grasp space science high concept technology. Being the 3rd nation in the world capable of organizing, launching & retrieving human in space show the prowness & understanding of modern science as well the ability to meld & harnest these disciplines to be use for its own agenda be it civilians or militaristic. It’s not easy, therefore few country has the will & resources to do it and even they do it, these knowledge will be lost if they don’t practice & keep on improving. If US nation has gone to the moon once, but can they do it consistently & repeatedly? This is mark of truely powerful highly developed technology country. Iterate, iterate, innovate, evolve and keep on evolving.

     Although India practices democracy, democracies are not necessary a perfect system to solve all the world solution in terms of governance. Democracy can mean chaos as well because everybody go their say such as idiots, murderer, rapists. Look at democracy where current India states start to break off like forming new Telangana state. When you have more states, breakoff, you introduce new political elements…and new chance of conflicts between them. Of course what can be bad, can be good….the more important a balance must be strike to achive normality. The world where human exist also because normality & balance right condition for us to exist.

     Physical aggression using military means between China & India at this moment, definitely India would lose out. Rather then military, why not use Indian culture to conquer China without single drop of bloodshed, convert them to appreciate Indian culture & practice India culture. Look at the Hollywood movies culture that influence people to adopt. Make them eat curry & like curry….. go for curry not war.

306. # manu on 17 Dec 2009 at 9:24 pm

     some comments are so funny.don’t be aggressive.We need to trust others & think positively for the future and think to develop.we ca do better.we should be try to make the our Earth peaceful & war free. Our Earth is so beautiful.Please keep it safe.I will persist to all don’t fight.

307. # David on 20 Dec 2009 at 11:41 am

     India has very long way to go before they will catch China.

     If there is war between the two countries then China will defeat India!

308. # prabas on 31 Dec 2009 at 11:26 pm

     Hello Guys…I am from Andhra Pradesh, south Indian well known as telugu. We are sick and tired of monopoly of north Indian Hindi people who are are forcing us to learn their 100 year language over our language telegu which is 2500 years old. They are also looting our resources with the power of central government. we want Chineese army to help us and get us freedom

309. # azad hind fauj on 01 Jan 2010 at 12:04 pm

     i am very offended with that bush content high up on his page… the content has very offending racist words towards indians.. i dont hv any other way rather comment to that post on a very rude manner… please people do not forget thousands of india freedom fighters gave there life for their country during british rule… we are a 5000 year old race. probably juggling with science and math when the rest was doing ………… god knows what especially that mr bush whoever he might be. so please dont take our friendlyness and soft natured hospitality as slavery…. if the water rises above the head… we know what to do and how to take action…… and please we give a damn about the western world…. thousands of professionals from the western world are flocking to india for jobs now yes i know many of them …. while in the western world they are roaming like beggers with no job…… SO SHUT UP AND RESPECT.

310. # Humair memon on 01 Jan 2010 at 10:40 pm

     Well no matter what China IS way More Stronger in Defense procurements than India Well Indian Navy has aircraft carriers which can be beneficial for them otherwise there is no competition because china’s has way more advanced weapons and nuclear warheads then India even Pakistan Nuclear program and technology is way better then India plus Chinese has new J10 fighter jets not like India which have aging Mirage 2000H and MiG 29 and Sui Ky which are way behind in all Chinese are planing to make new Stealth fighter J-XX in nearer future and India is way behind in their Tejas project even behind then Pakistan Jf17 manufacturing has already started as well…on the other hand china has whole lot of AWACS then India. India just received its first AWACS last year… PLAAF is way more superior then IAF no doubt even they have 30 su bombers whereas India don’t have enough Fc1 fighter is more advanced then Su ky of IAF as well well in the end there is no match China can Hit them pretty hard in my opinion for sure

311. # Anbu on 03 Jan 2010 at 10:45 am

     Yoyo, being a black or brown or yellow or white is not a shame. you should first understand that the skin colors that something because of the climate conditions of that particular region. you bloody chineese are only yellow, but we have many skin types, like brown, yellow, black and white.. thats why all the bloody neighbours like you jealous on us. you peoples are nothing, you just fogusing your strength. do not compare us with 1961, we are far away from that. now we are the 4th largest military power in the world and can have the ability to lead this world

312. # goodguy on 03 Jan 2010 at 12:14 pm

     Indian Union should let go of north eastern countries and Kashmir, also other ethnic groups who don’t wanna be part of the useless indian system, like my own people.

313. # IQBAL on 03 Jan 2010 at 2:55 pm

     Dear Friends,

     Just wait another 7 years , no country in world can ever beat or match indian defence potential, with the purchase of aircraft carrier admiral gorshkov, another 2 indigenous built carriers, another 200 plus fighter aircrafts, 5th generation aircraft, agni-v, surya ( ICBM ), mainly strong GDP……….INDIA WILL BE A SUPERPOWER BY 2030.But still we believe in peace…VANDE MATRAM

314. # Pulkit on 04 Jan 2010 at 9:02 am

     Indian hate Chinese because they have attacked India
     Not exactly because they are allied with Pakistan

315. # cny on 05 Jan 2010 at 1:10 pm

     Well. Never thought of India as 1st threat at all as a Chinese. US is the 1st threat. Internal stability is one of the crucial factors. For China, the minority is insignificant. I guess same for India as well. But for India, even at the cultural root like language and writing, there are already different kind of writing system and languages. Here, there is no unification and of course until now, you can still see a cultural and dispute between the Indian community. For China, well, there is only 1 writing system which was unified thousand year ago. You can say unification doesn’t contribute to diversification. But right now, this contributes to internal instability for India. And in term of population, well, you can say the more the better, but if India is not controlling the population and ensuring the quality, again this will bring instability.

316. # remone on 12 Jan 2010 at 8:24 pm

     Its time we got against the real culprits .Please understand its these politicians who represent botht countries ve caused so much of enimity in hearts of people. The require topics like these to win the “common mans” heart and splurge the economy screwin up the “common man”.

317. # Rational Indian on 13 Jan 2010 at 8:20 am

     Two Points -

     1. Good to see that from the begining of this read, the discussion has moved from showcasing military might to evaluation of economic, social & political situations of India & China.

     2. This Humair memon guy is a fregin IDIOT!!

318. # Yoyo on 13 Jan 2010 at 9:35 am

     Especially to you. # Anbu

     I do not know who the hell are you and how come you think that way. Again, I am not interested either who exactly you are or what makes you think that way. I just want to tell you places or the climates could possible change people’s skin colors. In some certain extent, you are right. But how come most of the Chinese are yellow skin or, if they were born in western countries, as you said due to the weather. Perhaps, their skin color just becomes fairer, but still yellow. How do you explain that, you genius?!!! Bullshit! You have no facts and information to proof, so could you please stop your down accusation? I do have religion, but not as stupid as some of you were. Why you guys always saying God this and God that. I think majority of you should stay away from those superstitious believe. Oh! I nearly forgotten, I think you can dream, but the world is watching. Who is stronger and tougher? The whole world would know. Certainly, not the way as you were crying like a baby to claim India is the best and so on. You are such an ashamed to your own kind. However, when the time I am not responded to some jerk. I might be busy. I mean I need to clarify one thing as I am not afraid to those stubborn people.

319. # vikas on 13 Jan 2010 at 9:51 pm

     Not just CHINA, INDIA, PAK but whole ASIA should work together.

     I saw comments of some western fellows who are saying that they are too good technology wise.
     Just Answer the below question now…
     Why you guys are not able to find OSAMA, Mullah Omar etc in last 10 years?
     Whats the use of your technology when you are not able to find your enemies?

     You Lost the war in Vietnam, Iraq and now you will loose in Afghanistan as well.
     Best of luck!
     You guys are simply increasing your enemies.Keep increasing.

     You say quality of life is very poor in India. It is poor but please check who are the most happy people on the planet earth. Its Indians only. At least as comparison to westerns very few Indian(Sorry Dont know about other Asian countries) suffer with stress related problems.We enjoy our life this way.You don’t need to bother.If u don’t like it , Please don’t visit India.
     Saare Jahan se Acha Hindustan hamara!
     Jai Hind!

320. # Ken on 14 Jan 2010 at 6:21 am

     Well, let’s take account of China’s anti-missile ability in this discussion. Any ideas?

321. # vikki on 19 Jan 2010 at 11:22 pm

     hai guys as i have read most of the post. To be frank i really feel unhappy and ashamed to tell that Indian democracy is the worst govt . as all the politician r just worried about their own powers especially the shivsenas and the telanganas and many more parties . They r least bothered about the country’s security and its development . they rather fight among their own statehood . and the most imp thing that i would like to tell to all Indians is that . stop going to countries such as US and UK and working for their economic development . come back to our own nation and try to work for the Indian government or any Indian firms to develop our own nation , that’s the best way to respond to all comments and secure the country,

322. # Akashwan on 23 Jan 2010 at 7:40 am

     There is no reason for war between India and China. At the end the war will become nuclear and will result in nothing for either country. If China attacks India, India will defend itself with all resources at it’s disposal. There will be no way India will let China have free land. China will need weigh this risk. As India will take China’s progress back 50 years. India may also be destroyed to an extent. There is no gain in war with India.

323. # Indian on 23 Jan 2010 at 11:57 am

     Enough of india vs china or an idiotic White making racist comments. India is definately lagging behind in may ways . Its time we think about the poor in the country and the so called lower casts . Look at the way people are making fun of us . There is not even a single comment in praise of our country . Every time these people make fun of us we should strive hard to bring equality to every one . Just think of the way we stunned the world when we gained independence through peaceful means , It is there in us to become a strong nation . We were pushed to stone age by the British . The main important point is we should all unite as Indians .

     We should respect each our and love each other as brothers and not look down people on the basis of religion , caste, or race .

     Our first priority should be to uplift the poor people who live in Slums and Villages . I have seen that in villages upper castes people live in a colony and lower castes people live outside the village . This is very bad . if we cant embrace our own people as brothers how will the world respect .

     For this intercaste marriages should be actively encouraged and supported monetrily. No one should know which caste they belong to , they should be strongly bonded to the nation . Upper caste people should marry lower caste people to uplift them .

     Last but not the least I would want to say is that fist we should fight the evil in our own country and then we will be capable of fighting any danger from outside

324. # Kiftik on 23 Jan 2010 at 11:08 pm

     One thing is proven. The Indians talk a lot, have a sense of superiority and try to attribute past, present successes to their culture whether proven or otherwise. I have had contact with many Indians, my conclusion, they are hard working, though not as much as Chinese, but more than that they are manipulative. Just to clarify, manuipulative does not necessarily mean deceptive.

     Plato said that a truly wise man never claims that he knows the truth about everything — he knows better. An Indian will almost always claim to be the best and know what is wrong or right.

     SO India has made some progress on the back of 1+ Billion people and outsourcing from US. Probability says that you will have quite a few very intelligent and hardworking people in such a large population anyway. An when a lot of these people found too much competition in their own country they went looking for fertile grounds in US and other places. Yes, many have risen to high positions in Fortune 500 companies but quite a few have been disgraced such as Raj Raganathan and Computer Associates ex CEO. Everyone knows that the current CEO of Citigroup is a lameduck CEO who took up the job because no one else would.

     I am not a Western European but will attest to the fact that more progress has been made in Western Europe and US in the past 500+ years than any time in history anywhere else. India and China would not even be familiar with the words ‘technology’ or ‘Internet’ if it were not for the Western Europeans. The current advancement in Science and Arts is mostly owed to them. Once I was reading a list of scientific discoveries in India by an Indian author and the only significant discovery he related to India was the Invention of the number ‘0′.

     Yes, the British have been brutal in their colonial role but they have been the best scientists also. So goes for the Germans and the French and others. So, my Indian and Chinese Friends, yes, you invented the gunpowder and the number ‘0′ but that’s where it ended. Come up with something new and original or shut up and go back to copying inventions from the west and manning the lowly Call Centers (also called outsouring).

     KI

325. # Prabhu on 24 Jan 2010 at 3:47 pm

     china government’s official website (chinaview.cn) always quote Indian state Jammu & Kashmir as India controlled jammu & Kashmir. This angers Indian people and the Indian government. But we dont use Tibet as China controlled Tibet. This is the different between India and China in a simple way.

326. # Kiftik on 25 Jan 2010 at 4:21 pm

     A far as Jammu & Kasmir goes, there are official UN resolutions dating back to Indian Independence that recognize the disputed state of the region. Jammu & Kasmir ceded to India on the whim of the local Raja and against the wishes of the majority of the population, which is the reason for several hundred thousand Indian troops still trying to control the population.

     The same is the case for Tibet. India and China are both guilty of hegemony and opression in Kashmir and Tibet. Let’s make it clear, right or wrong is usually decided by whoever is more powerful, and any such decisions are self-serving. Let’s not be manipulative here again.

327. # david on 26 Jan 2010 at 4:17 am

     @ Prabhu

     I totally agree with China government offical website stating Jammu & Kashmir as Indian controlled. Jammu & Kashmir is a disputed territory between India and Pakistan and the issue is at the United Nation. Its one of the longest outstanding issue to be resolved.

328. # red on 30 Jan 2010 at 6:56 am

     india will sooner overtake all countries in miltary power because in india there is lot of cold-herted soldiers capeable of killing lot of soldiers my theory is 1 INDIAN SOLIDER=1000SOLIDER OF OTHER COUNTRY indian people love india more than their live,they think india has their mother itself,the indian soliders die for their country thinking they will die for their mother india and indian people are also army when they are requried they will be there for help,then india become the unbeatable country in the world all other country should know that india beat british without using wepon,they use their mind,belife,strenget and NATIONLISM JAY HIND

329. # Aftab wasif on 30 Jan 2010 at 9:30 am

     i want to ask these ass hole indians that who are supporting these terrorist elements in pakistan. it is india for sure and it has been proved thousand of times. we pakistanis are not saying anything to india now because we are waiting for the right oppurtunity. when americans will leave afghanistan then we are going to fuck u.

330. # terence on 30 Jan 2010 at 12:40 pm

     India has anounced few miles stone has delivered own submarine & frigate. Aircraft cariier underway & aircrft figther also but need to oull in shorten the years to deploy. Need to chase up alot to get ranking no 2 or 3 from worls militrat strenght.

331. # terence on 30 Jan 2010 at 12:48 pm

     Oh ya BTW india missle yet to reach 5000 km whwreby china has 12000 km ranger missle. Need to cath up this area as well. Too many talking but slow progress from India which is disapointing & getting china an anvantage as they are fast in getting things done.

332. # s on 31 Jan 2010 at 6:24 pm

     China doesn’t need a war. Considering the support the maoists have, their enemy is their arrogance.

     Indians are confused right now, they are good at talking to mythical west and disowning themselves. On the otherhand, I see the comments from chinese- They even support Mao-the-thug, and too confident as if they didn’t have these cheap products half a decade before.

     # Chinese may be liberated by Mao the thug, but they don’t talk of class warfare from top of their head. Most modern Indian literature is about class warfare - Even when they talk about religion . This has been so ingrained that, probably it will not change in our life time.

     # Indians are led by western academics to a decadent path, they will read logic and science in english, hate their native languages except when there is a reason to be zingoistic and fight for native languages. While chinese burrow technical concepts to their vocabulary, Indians burrow dirty political jargons to their vocabulary, when it is not a third rate drama.

     #Chinese mayn’t have religious identity, but they don’t disown their past. Sometimes they appear like inventing historical figures . India may have religious past, but they hate it. Just because west accepts Yoga, and Budha, Indians are comfortable at these subjects. Indian past is not accepted in India until approved by western logicians.

     # Chinese metaphysical idea may be about damn idea of chinese race, but they see enlightment in progress of their race . Indians would find yet another ruse to bury their enlightened metaphysical ideas and make it in terms race the dirty. Most of the maoists were recruited based on the race ideas, initially developed by british for us.

     However India is a miracle…There hundreds of things that works miraculously…In addition to chinese communist arrogance, the Indian uncertanity is only danger to them . Of course we got some interesting military hardware.

333. # vasant gowda on 01 Feb 2010 at 11:18 am

     @George bush, I must thank you for hitting hard at the face of Indians. Infact, 95% of the Indians are asslickers, no doubt. @All those fake patriots of India, definitely like me and others here wants to see the end of Brahmin/Parsee/Bania rule in India which has been going for 3000 years without most of the Indians noticing it. These uppercastes are basically outsiders who came from central asia were cunningly running the dravidian(original inhabitants), Moghul and british regime and their trade by controlling them via inner administration without nobody noticing it. In the modern era, these uppercaste rulers are controlling indian social/economic/political life through 2 major political parties Congress and BJP. The dravidian race are deprived of benefits of all major institutions of India by these uppercaste marauders and are ill-treated in every way. Indian media has become a weapon of torture airing 24×7 all false news. China is a role model for India. I wish china takeover Indian administration else Indians themselves should kick out present rulers.

334. # Rajendra Kumar on 03 Feb 2010 at 6:44 pm

     Wars often throw many surprises. Mighty Brtish empire was packed from India without firing weaponds. Britain has been sliding down ever since. Many armies knocked at the Indian doors. Indians have their own ways to deal with invaders. If history is any indication, Indians have not only survived, they have thrived for thousands of years and there is no reason that this will not continue. Very unlikely there will be war between India and China. Chances are high that war will be between India and Pakistan and in all probability it will turn out to be a nuclear war.

335. # G.Vinod on 04 Feb 2010 at 1:54 pm

     S

     “Indians are led by western academics to a decadent path, they will read logic
     and science in english, hate their native languages”
     It is only in the major cities, not in other parts of India, where people give
     much importance for English. The concept of liberalization may be the
     real cause in the Metros but majority of people in India love their language
     and do you know that people in India even die while protecting their language
     interests? It’s not for English but for their Mother tongue!!

     “India may have religious past, but they hate it”
     The hate messages against a particular religion is spread by the West and in
     that process many innocent poor are converted from one religion to other.
     Even money is being distributed for those who convert.

     “Just because west accepts Yoga, and Budha, Indians are comfortable at these
     subjects. Indian past is not accepted in India until approved by western logicians”
     Indians are just happy that the west accepts yoga and nothing more than that.
     Yoga has survived for the past thousands of years in India inspite of many invasions
     by the west in the past and their false propaganda. Infact yoga is not accepted in
     some religion as they feel that it’s basically a Hindu worship.

     But I accept that many Indians have become narrow minded and less patriotic.

     Aby

     I request you to delete the comments of Aftab wasif, dated 30th January, as
     it would only earn disrespect to your forum.

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