India vs Pakistan - Evaluation on Military Strengths
Dmitri August 6th, 2007
India and Pakistan have been at loggerheads on the Kashmir issue since their independence from Imperial Britain in 1947. After the independence and partition into two countries, Pakistan chose to be an Islamic republic and aligned with USA in the Cold War. India on the other hand, chose to remain politically neutral and chose a democratic government while keeping military ties with former-USSR. These choices turned out to the the turning points in the political and military future of both these countries and it decided the present state of Indian and Pakistani military strengths which we will evaluate below. It must be noted that what follows is not an evaluation of military power in combat situations, but of military strengths based on currently available manpower, equipments, infrastructure, command and strategy. Future military plans and projects are not discussed due to uncertain and volatile nature of such plans, often subject to cancellation, failure or modification.
A documentary video on the 1971 war between India and Pakistan which was the only military conflict between these two countries involving sea, ground, air and missile forces .
Military Budgets and Economic Impact
Pakistan’s defence budget for the year 2006-07 was $4.1 billion (~3% of GDP) in response to India’s hike in defence budget of 2006-07 at $20.11 billion (~ 2.5% of GDP). Pakistan’s hike in military budget would be partially funded from its government coffers and partially by borrowing while India would fund its military spending from its own funds. The growing tensions between both this countries and India’s ambitions have lead to such huge defence spendings despite their widespread poverty and socio-political problems. India gets away with such a high military budget owing to its democratic government and a fast growing trillion dollar economy which gives it greater purchasing power. Pakistan does not have it as easy as India in its military development particularly because of its mounting international debts and a series of military dictators creating political instability. In most of its wars Pakistan relies on US material and military support in contrast to India’s funding from its own resources.
Manpower and Ground Forces
India has the second largest manpower in its military globally - at 3,773,300 personell (2005), next only to China. Pakistan has a much smaller manpower of 1,449,000 personell which is proportionally higher than India in terms of their population ratios. Pakistan’s ground forces are equipped with American or Chinese weapons like FIM 92 Stinger SAMs, BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles, T-82 tanks and other equipments. Indian ground forces are equipped mostly by home-made or Soviet technologies like IR guided 9K35 Strela-10 SAMs, 3rd Gen IR guided Nag anti-tank missiles, UAVs and a large inventory of tanks and support vehicles. In terms of numbers and equipments, both Indian and Pakistani ground forces are on an closely equal footing.
Comparison of Air Forces
As of 2006, Indian Air Force (IAF) has over 170,000 personnel and 3,382 aircrafts of which 1,330 are combat aircrafts operating off 61 airbases - making it the fourth largest air force in the world. India’s strike fighters consist of Russian and French aircrafts like Mikoyan MiG-29, Dassault Mirage 2000, Sukhoi Su-30 - the last one developed under dual licensing by HAL, India’s aerospace industry in Bangalore. In addition to these, India’s air force owns ground attack aircrafts, reconnaissance aircrafts, UAVs and support helicopters - a majority of them either of Soviet or French origin. Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has about 530 combat aircrafts and over 65,000 active personnel, operating out of 9 airbases. Its strike fighters consist of US, Chinese and French fighters like F-16 Fighting Falcon, JF-17 Thunder and Dassault Mirage ROSE-III. It also has transport aircrafts like Lockheed Martin C-130 and Airbus A310, however there are no UAVs or reconnaissance aircrafts in the Pakistani Air Force.
Naval and Sea Based Forces
After the overwhelming losses in the 1971 war against India, Pakistan rapidly increased the size of its naval fleet which doubled in the 1980s after a massive 3.2 billion dollar military and economic aid by US President Ronald Reagan. At present, Pakistan’s navy owns over 45 vessels , most of them of US or European origin which include submarines, destroyers, frigates, patrol and mine warfare boats. It operates from its sole naval port in Karachi and naval facilities in UK, USA and France. It had recently been involved in various humanitarian operations during the 2005 Tsunami in South East Asia. Indian Navy on the other hand, is a three dimensional naval force consisting of missile-capable warships, an aircraft carrier, mine sweepers and a host of marine aircrafts; most of its warships indigenously built in its own dockyards. The navy operates from its major naval bases in Visakhapatnam, Mumbai, Goa and the Andaman Islands. Indian Navy has significant capabilities of being a true blue water Navy and is experienced both in war and peacekeeping operations in the Indian Ocean.
The Nuclear Club
India tested a nuclear bomb in 1974 using materials from Canada and technical help from Soviet Union. However the embargo in heavy water export from Canada after the test stalled India’s nuclear ambitions till 1998, when it shocked the world by conducting five nuclear detonations termed as Shakti tests. The highest yield was by a 48 kiloton staged fusion device, which India claimed was a thermonuclear bomb but seismic data on the tests proved otherwise. In the same year 1998, Pakistan conducted a series of six nuclear detonations in a test termed as Chagai. The highest yield was reported to be about 25 kiloton from a two stage boosted device. At present Pakistan’s nuclear stockpile is slated to be around 30-40 warheads while India possesses 70-100 warheads. The nuclearisation of India and Pakistan became a turning point in the history of conflicts between these two countries with high tensions but no war, not very much unlike the US vs USSR Cold War.
Ballistic and Cruise Missile Proliferation
In the nuclear delivery front, both India and Pakistan have a series of ballistic and cruise missiles in addition to ground attack aircrafts. The maximum range among India’s operational ballistic missiles is 2000 km achieved by Agni-2. India’s Agni ballistic missiles are indigenously developed by its own missile defence industry known as IGMDP. The maximum range among Pakistan’s missiles is by Hatf V Gauri which is reported to do over 2200 kms. Pakistan’s Hatf missiles are based on North Korean No-Dong series of IRBMs. Both Pakistan’s Hatf and India’s Agni ballistic missiles are nuclear capable. India has also developed a supersonic cruise missile BrahMos which is by far the fastest cruise missile at Mach 2.6 and maximum range of 290 km. It is reported to be nuclear capable but it is not confirmed yet. On the Pakistan side, its Babur cruise missile has a reported range of 700 km and a maximum speed of 880 km/h (Mach 0.7). As with India BrahMos, Babur is also reported to be nuclear capable but there is no confirmation yet.
The Final Verdict
Both Pakistan and India are almost evenly matched head to head in nuclear and missile fronts, however India has strategic and technological superiority over the conventional forces of Pakistan. Indian Navy is larger in fleet and personnel size with a more varied range of ships including an aircraft carrier while Pakistan’s Navy is smaller and has no aircraft carriers. Indian’s IAF is equipped with highly capable fighters like 4.5th generation Su-30s and 4th gen Mirage 2000s which are technologically superior to Pakistan PAF’s F-16s and Mirage IIIs. Additionally Indian pilots are better trained and more capable in air combat than Pakistani forces as was demonstrated by its various wars with Pakistan or joint exercises with US and UK. In the area of conventional ground forces both the Indian as well as Pakistani Army is well equipped and highly trained to survive in extremities of topography and climate in combat conditions, like wars in the high Himalayas.
If a purely conventional war were to take place between both these countries, India would most likely overpower Pakistan owing to its superior military technology and infrastructure, larger manpower, more territorial area and a strategic advantage in its sea and air forces. It must also be noted that a war between these two countries will matter more than India’s conventional superiority as both these nations are nuclear powers on an equal deadlock. India has maintained a ‘no first use’ nuclear policy on the lines of a similar policy by China while Pakistan does not have any such policy, considering their only hope against India is in nuclear deterrance. It would be risky for India at the present scenario to go into any aggressive war against Pakistan as the repercussions would be serious a nuclear devastation for both countries.
More Information and Resources -
- The Military Balance 2006 - International Institute for Strategic Studies
- India Military Guide - Global Security
- Pakistan Military Guide - Global Security
- Military
- Comments(558)
India’s defence is built to make position as a global military might. Pakistan defence is built to fight India. Pakistan would have done better if they could get rid of the myopic mullahs who are always busy fighting their own government.
we have slautered indian army in the kargil and 1965 wars. boasts and military power mean nothing if you cannot win wars we have allah on our side.
India and Pakistan may have fought wars in past but it is not going to happen any more because of their nuclear capability. Mutually Assured Destruction would stop either of these countries launching missiles or fighting against each other. India already has a no first use policy in place and Pakistan’s president Musharraf stated that, “It is madness to use nuclear bombs”. Funny how nuclear weapons help for peace huh?
Leo
Razak, you have so much faith in Allah so tell me why he did not help Pakistan win a single wars? You think Pakistan won the Kargil war, when you got beaten back and your prime minister ran to America for help. The 1965 was a draw because Pakistan got tired and offered a ceasefire. The 1971 war was a crushing defeat for as they lose the war in 12 days and lost men and land.
this is for razak of pakistan ” did u forget that in 1999 kargil we only lost 500 of our brave soldiers but on the other hand u had a casuality of nearly 2500………… now who has slaughtered whom?. while of allah there are more us muslims in INDIA than there in pakistan. 1965 remember somthing ,the INDIAN army took only 38 hours to enter pakistan and u took around 3 to 4 months in kargil and even then could not defeat us. sorry to say this but baap baap hota hai aur beta beta
THIS is for all indians wait for the next war kids and we will see wat u r gona do we will beat u so badly that ur daddy russia n ur momma israel will not be in position to protect u we will knock u out mark my words
Mr razak watch the statistics first. right from 1947 your army is continously defeated by us.You are defeated on every front. in kargil too your troops were killed by our bofors and brave troops. your army doesn’t have guts to fight with us openly.and Mr usman you are talking about next war this time your army will be of nowhere even your uncle sam will not be able to help you.
India will definitely win the comparison as it is probably the fastest and most dynamic country in what it has achieved the last few years. Unlike China it has not stagnated in its Navy and Air Force, with a wealth of training and experience either China or Pakistan can hardly boast of. With a strong economic footing and one of the best three-dimensional armed forces in the world it could well be the next superpower at least in Asia if not the world.
hey fazir… just chill… we have slautered indian army in the kargil and 1965 wars… please do not count the duration of war… hum nay hara dia so hara dia… so dont cry… aur kis ka baap koun hai yeh tu waqt hi bata day ga… every thing does not depend up on quantity. It also depends upon quality…. aur pak army ki quality tu poori dunia hi jaanti hai
GlobalFirepower (GFP) provides a unique analytical display of information based on sources from all over the globe.As per the website, pakistan ranks at 20th position & India in the 4th position.
India’s economy is in double digits, where as the pakistan is almost in the lower single digits.India has more money & purchasing power or can fund its indigineious military requirements. where as pakistan depends more on chinese technology, which are not for superior but could be a threaten in the game of war.
With in asia, china might be big in numbers, but if you go by the qualitative measures, India & japan has a small numbers in all the areas, but they have very potent forces to strike or give back to any country.
I think India & Japan comes first & second, while the china will be in 3rd position. I completly agree with the china’s military might. But all their forces are old & getting stagnated.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/
@usman
Nice, Day dreaming is nice, atleast they promise castles in the air. LOL.
@umer
Defeat is defeat now don’t try to bargain it with quality & quantity. History had written Defeat & surrender many times on the name of Pakistan & that will continue in future & that was ofcourse with quality. Haven’t you seen those pictures? Pakistan General signs his surrender to Indian army. Google for it & See them. it was even published in ur DAWN. That page of ur newspaper is still hanging as poster frame in our military schools.
“aur pak army ki quality tu poori dunia hi jaanti hai”
I thought army counts on its strength & power. Now we came to know y Pakis lost thy wars? Because they try to give quality!! great!! Your soldiers must be wearing low-waist branded jeans & some branded t-shirts & shoes on Warfield .
HA! We only know how u surrender in style.
& yeah….. KEEP, GOD, ALLAH, & BHAGWAN out of this.
hi theire young indian youts hu u think you are i was one of several pakistani navi soldier i can remember hijaking indian military air base and theire f16 fighters, i was also the one who ambushed indian army bases and we raped the hell out of your indian hindu street women they were yeliing your baghban help us we wrote on theire faces we get raped by pakistani army.WE concoured india into tiny bits theire was nothing left of such a big country but dust and stone.on the side was with us our mujahideen and allah who thought in battle helping us destroy india in 3 to 4 days.may allah always be with pakistan and will be we live by the gun and die by the gun.
@ big khan - Your comment would have been interesting were it not for the fact that India does not have F-16s in its Air Force, navy does not ambush army bases and that India is not conquered by any country at present, least of all Pakistan. I think it is wise to keep a discussion civil and I hope you will comply.
hey guys… in kargil there was only casualties of pakistan army but indian army had lost 500 soldiers… so tell me who is the winner???? and in 1965 war indian army had appropriated lahore wrongly and in the reply pakistan army conqured lahore… so plz tell me who is the winner… so taufiq just shut your mouth if you dont have any knowledge about past
I hope comment authors will let their sane heads prevail rather than getting provoked to use abusive and inflammatory languages. The only one who wins on an internet debate is one who provides factual arguments rather than swearing against any nation or other comment authors.
A happy Independence Day to both Pakistani and Indian visitors and let the spirit of this celebration keep enmity and insults out. I would hate to put anyone, who has been approved in moderation again because of their language.
The very existence of Pakistan is shaky, they have never had a stable government…nor does it seem that they will have one soon. Without a stable government, one cannot build a large and powerful military. One cannot survive from aid package to aid package given out by foreign countries for political mileage.
India has never wanted to destroy Pakistan, it is in its interest to have a strong and vibrant neighbour. Pakistan on the other hand has made the destruction of India the very reason for its existence. This is the primary difference which will resonate in all the different façades, political-social and military.
hey umar
war hone de tum logo ki woh halat ho jaygi ki tumahara baap china bhi tujhe bacha nahi payga ghar mein ghush kar marrenge.
You pakistanis define your acts of cowardence as a bravery.Your Army does not have guts to fight with us head to head.Do not keep wrong concepts about 1965 and 1999.Apart from that how will U justify 1971.Pakistan Army surrendered in that war.In future too If they try to mess with us they will be killed.
@big khan
u need help! If ur really a Pakistan navy soldier as u claims to be…u should have known that Indian Air Force dont have F-16, Navy personnel cannot ambush ground bases, especially when it is 900+ Kms away frm sea! & xcuse me…what did u said about raping indian women??? Man u rape ur own family members so it is not a big surprise. Keep up!
@all
See?? this is what Pakistan military.
LOL.
@ All Pakistani Brothers
Lets face the truth (Sad but true…)
These are confessions of your own Paki brothers read/watch them carefully, which clearly defines Pakistan lost wars, Logically, Practically, Morally & Economically. So no matter how loud u shout (over blogs, forums, topics, your PTV etc.) Truth is truth. India WON all the wars and this time please dont cry as you always do, saying “…bring the reliable source..” Cause these are your own Paki brothers.(Notice “.pk” domains in URLs)
PAKISTAN’S OWN CONFESSION: WE LOST THE WAR !
1.http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-7-2004_pg3_4
2.http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=25274
3.http://www.satribune.antisystemic.org/www.satribune.com/archives/august04/P1_rauf.htm
4.http://www.saag.org/papers13/paper1231.html
5.http://youtube.com/watch?v=xuqINvYALTM&mode=related&search=
DECLARATION BY INTERNATIONAL SOURCES: PAKISTAN LOST AGAIN!
1.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/391617.stm
2.http://www.exile.ru/2004-December-10/war_nerd.html
3.http://www.nps.edu/academics/sigs/nsa/publicationsandresearch/studenttheses/theses/Acosta03.pdf
4.http://youtube.com/watch?v=j80E1mHAohU
5.http://youtube.com/watch?v=IS8cKBgNsOI&mode=related&search=
THIS is just about KARGIL 1999, If you want 1965, 1971 then I am ready to post those links too…But u knw..? We cant see tears!
bless u all!
Hello guys,
Why are talking about war, there are other useful stuffs to be talked like economic collaboration, Business trade and better people exchange between India and Pakistan. I think both of the nation can become better if they don’t strike against each other. One thing I noticed in this discussion that Pakistani people have been more abusive in their language while Indians are using proper and calm words, I think that also denotes something. And Allah is not there only for Pakistan, he is for everyone having good heart anywhere in the world.
@ Robins Tomar - “I noticed in this discussion that Pakistani people have been more abusive in their language while Indians are using proper and calm words, I think that also denotes something.”
I have noticed that the Pakistanis tend to use more harsh words but it could be a language bias. Indians are better masters of English than Pakistanis and thus could put their words more precisely and clearly.
@ Robins Tomar - “And Allah is not there only for Pakistan, he is for everyone having good heart anywhere in the world.”
Well spoken. If anyone were to make a claim on Allah, majority woul favour Indians as they have a significantly larger number of Muslims than Pakistan or any other country except Indonesia.
Good day citizens,
The image of our glorious motherland on the global political forum is summed up in these words and I quote: “Today we do not ask what the future of India is… we say rather that India is the future.” This is our time citizens, a new, golden age of freedom and prosperity. And while our neighbour to the Northwest rots in its own political turmoil, we shall be forging a new nation- one of peace, equality and prosperity. Let it be known yet still, that blow shall be matched for blow, violence be returned for violence, and those that seek to trespass our sovereignty will be crushed like flies under an iron cog. Need I say more?
Glory unto the nation,
Castor Ajax
P.S.: I suggest the fools in this forum that wish a future war with India read this:
http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3269
Pakistan is pretty amateur country in whole sense. They levied war on us as soon as they got hold onto nuclear weapons.Pakistan claimed five successful tests of their nuke missiles in the 2nd Aug 1998. In haste, just within a months, they imposed war on us in Jun 1999 & Pakistan was almost in the trans to use those nuke on us!!! Thanks to those responsible allied & non -allied nations especially United States & UN who opposed Pakistan & supported India. It only shows Pakistan’s amateurishness! While on other hand India is holding nuclear power since 1974 (decades before Pakistan) though India showed the patience & responsibility by avoiding nuclear use .As a more superior nuclear power than Pakistan, India never threatened Pakistan in any sense & always tried to be a peaceful neighbor.
Pakistan do not deserves to hold nuclear powers! It’s just like “Drunken Monkey Holding Grenades”
pakis and indians going toward hell. both countries peoples didnt know real statistics.wts happend in 1948 war 1971 war in 1971 and in kargil both countries tell abt V to their people.its true indian is BIG than pakistan but both have nearly same army forces.next war could be garveyard for both. so v should think abt PEACE not use harsh words. pakistani are very emotional but they shuld realized reality india is more powerful than pakistan. but in war every thing will destory also big india.
It is actually quite saddening reading some of the comments (from both the Indian and Pakistani community).
Please lets keep the discussion intellectual and objective rather than emotional and subjective. I was particularly perplexed by “big khans” comments. But I suppose big khan is the sort of person that is born in the UK but feels the desire to put a bomb on his back and kill his own British Citizens - shame on you!
It is obvious that a nuclear exchange would no doubt destroy both countries - arguably Pakistan would be marginally more affected given the difficulty of Pakistani missiles reaching Southern India.
However, the real issue is how both countries will progress and develop. Pivotal to this question is the issue of economic development, which is dependent on political stability. This is where India has a huge advantage in my opinion. The stats don’t lie. One simply needs to examine the GDP growth of India versus Pakistan. This close to double digit growth is creating further wealth disparity between both countries and wealth historically transfers into global influence economically, politically and militarily.
My concern is how the fragile political system in Pakistan will respond to this. Pakistan will very unlikely be able to develop at the rate of India. No doubt, given the rivalry between both populations (as demonstrated on this site) Pakistan’s people will continue to experience potential feelings of jealousy. The problem is if one of these fools captures power in Pakistan via a military coup and then decides to initiate a nuclear exchange.
Nuclear weapons are like children - sometimes the state has to remove children from their parents as they are unfit to care for the children. And perhaps this espoused theory should be transferred to which nations are deemed responsible enough to have nuclear weapons.
I know the counter argument would be why does the west get to choose which countries are suitable. Also, I do agree that Pakistan having nucleur weapons does deter from an invasion from India.
In conclusion, balancing all viewpoints, a potential solution would require Pakistan to sign a doctrine stating that it will only retaliate with nukes rather than initiating a strike. Another potential solution would be that the US garnish a great deal of power and control on Pakistan’s nukes.
I know there are flaws in my recommended courses of actions but these are just ideas at the top of my head. My worst nightmare would be for religious zealot to have control of Pakistanis arsenal.
All comments welcome
[/bold]@all[/bold]
Lets pray for peace…All my Indian & Pakistani brothers lets show the world that Hindu & Muslim Nations could live in harmony.
[b]@big khan[/b]
God please forgive him.
yaar dablu sahi keh raha hai tu.. war honay de china ki zaroorat hi nai paray gi hum pakistani tum logoon ki waisay hi maa bhen aik kar dain gay…. tu bachay wait kar
@ rishi
hey rishi listen as we all know that pakistan had won 1965 and 1999 wars… so 1971 ki war par itna mat uchlo…. agay bhi insha-allah tum hindu loog hum muslims say zaroor haaro gay….
@ taufiq
hey listen you badly need to watch BBC shows okk…. then you will come to know about the reality….since your childhood you guys have been tought that india had won all the wars but it is not the reality…. you hindu guys can never win against the muslims…. remember that
@Mr. Babar
I appreciate your thoughts partially. It is in interest of both countries that we should avoid war. This is again 90% in hands of Pakistan, because until Pakistan stops supporting terrorism in Kashmir, peace is outrageous. So in order to establish peace, what we really need is a proper referendum in the whole Kashmir region, even including the Pakistan occupied Kashmir, under international supervision. The results shouldn’t be manipulated and will of the people of Kashmir should be considered the law. That’s the only way this issue could be solved.
And for your Kind information, “pakis and indians going toward hell. both countries peoples didnt know real statistics.”?! I know that we (India & Pakistan) are still called 3rd world by developed nations but excuse me again, “HELL?!?” That’s too much. …No sir, at least India is not heading towards hell OK? It is my pleasure to tell you that Among the 54 flawed democracies; India is seventh and overall 35th in whole world & maintained a stable government since its independence. India’s economy ranks 4th in world. India’s Reserves of foreign exchange and gold ($145,000,000,000) Ranked 6th in world. India’s Military Ranked 3rd in world. Bollywood ranks 2nd after Hollywood, The Indian film industry is the largest in the world in terms of the ticket sales and the number of films produced annually (877 feature films and 1177 short films were released in the year 2003 alone). Indian Railway is one of the largest and busiest rail networks in the world, transporting sixteen million passengers and more than one million tonnes of freight daily. India again ranks 3rd in producing quality Scientists, Engineers & Doctors. Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is all set to launch its first moon satellite Known as “Chandrayaan 1″ in April 2008 & ISRO hopes to land a motorised rover on the moon in 2010 or 2011, will be known as “Chandrayaan 2″. Kalpna Chawla & Sunita Williams were the Indian women who played leading role in “ISS”. India is on the way to become a superpower in Asia just after China. Phew….!!! There is much more to tell about our achievements but I think this is enough.
If you think this information is manipulated or is a hoax or the sources are unreliable, I advise you to run your own search.
SOURCES:
http://www.google.com/
http://www.photius.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/
http://www.isro.org/
http://www.indianexpress.com/
http://www.indianrail.gov.in/
@umer
And you badly need to watch PTV shows…
Your abusive language shows the reality. ain’t it?
hey Umer only U people claim that pak won 1965 and 1999 war but world knows who defeated whom.
@Umer
I pity at ur knowledge if u think war was between Hindus & Muslims…In Kargil war 70% of Indian forces were from East India’s Sherpa Regiments & they were Buddhist. (Sherpas are known for their vibrant knowledge about Mountains & high altitude) and if you don’t know Mr. umer, India has more Muslims than there in Pakistan. So think again whom u fought with & got defeated to knees badly?(at least now stop, watching BBC & see whats happening in your own country. LOL)
Mr.Umer why do u pick on someone’s Mother & sister? Don’t u have balls to fight with men? (we know u don’t…thats why Pakistan supports terrorism!) If you still think that Pakistan won 1965 & 1999…just go to my previous posts where I hv posted some nice Pakistani Links where your government has confessed ur deafeat. & now Please care to watch this video footage too. in which Pakistani military is waving White Flag (call for Defeat/surrender) & accepts slain bodies from Indian army officers.(I was not about to paste this video link here but umer’s abusive language provoked me.)
Here Goes the Link>>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8cKBgNsOI
Hey fellows cut this crap. In simple words, war is not a solution but a destruction of future generation. Instead, we should focus on how to improve relations and think about economic and cultural ties so that people on both sides could benefit. Both countries have the military might to inflict damage on each other but for what cause? Be peaceful and look for a better future rather then dragging each other to the stone age! My paki brothers are a bit emotional but my indian friends should not underestimate others! Be friends and help each other so that this region can progress!
@umer
Kindly See the Last picture in following web page & then decide whom you fought with…!
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images-1999a.html
(I think they didn’t showed this on BBC, am I right Mr.umer?)
Hi Pakis..Jisme dum nahi hota they talk more and boost more. See all the texts above. Indians have not been boosting. Jab ladai hogi tab dekhenge. Kyun Apni BP increase kar rahe ho guys.
Hi Freinds ,,
India never start any war till now,,, India always following defensive method from pakistan attack . India never start a war beacause Indians respect pakistani poeple .They also have family . You know if pakistan spend all his military expenses money in contructive work in pakistan .Pakistan could be third developing nation in asia after china and india .it applicabale to india also . Pain is same to everybody guys even ur pakiatani or indian . We always seek peace in our region.
You guys not gonna be super power ,if we give kashmir to you . Some other forign nations want us to fight becaz they dont want india and pakistan to grow . If we are in peace ,How come they sell weapons .? How come they get money ? .. Poeple dont understand this ,, we are fighting each other ..we are lossing our brothers for some one in the world . If india and pakistan tied up in business ,communication ,Information technology ,,I am sure nobody cant us Friends ,, Let us be friends . Dont forget we are all from one nations !!!!
It seems Pakistanis pride on raping women instead of winning wars if you look at big khan’s post. If they concentrated on winning wars instead of raping women maybe they could have won those wars…
talking about fact tu 47 mein kuch be na honay kay bawajood indian 10 times bigger army apnay point achive na kar saki
1964 lahore in dreams
1971 speared pakistan with help of russia and usa in two pieces but hey thx for another Muslim country
1988 only a cricket match or hawa nakal gayee indian nuclear power india ke
1999 mar khanay kay baad phr beach mein usa ayia caz .7 million army bhoki marti india ke chaina aera mein dada ban jayta or usa ke koi na chalti
tu larna choro in history indian kabee eik nehi tha muslims nay aa kar eik kara verna maharaja log apas mein lartay they
bathir yay he hai apni apni awam ka soocho or un ke halat sahi karo laro gay tu history utha lo kesi be natural historian ke lag pata giay ga
@Ali Ghori….
In which std. ur learning kid?
Indian Kindergarten Kids can speak more fluent Hindi & English than you & tell me kid…if ur so proud of Pakistan why r u struggling to speak India’s National language here i.e. Hindi? Why don’t u speak Urdu? (PS: Urdu is again Indian-Persian & Arab Origin Language….another favour on Pakistan with love ofcorz)
Your language is just like your Pakistani Government unstable, unpredictable, baseless & partially dependent on others.
Anyways…none of your fault, we know Pakistan’s education system.
@Aby
Sorry man…I know Its bad to pick on someone’s language but that guy is really getting on my nerves & I know this debate is not about language…but that really denotes that Pakistan is mess on every front. Just check out their previous posts its ok if u don’t know English, but at least Hindi!! at least Urdu!!! Gosh!!!
Guys I m a proud Indian but I dont blame pakistanis or indians on this heated debate. Its just a clear example of our human instincts or behavior. We are like brothers who had a partation with a lot of blood shed over a land or a house. so everytime we are supposed to talk about each other we point out the others short commings and personal achivements.. India and Pakistan had about 4 wars and the blood was shed on both sides. We feel proud to talk about it because,….. we dont know wat it feels to die in love of country and then be cursed …. So as a generation enjoing the 6th decade of the freedom we should try to resolve our problem. War is like a sword with no handel so the person who hold and the person it strikes both bare the pain. If the warfront was an stage for conluding the outcome we would have got peace till now.
and ya.. although I don belive in god but “Allaha and bhagwan; Hindu or Muslim is a choice of faith not a reason to hate or kill”
Think about it…. and may our broken family get back together.
India is destined to become the next superpower of this world. With already the 2nd largest army, 3rd largest air force, 4th largest navy and 83% victory rate in wars, India is already a military power to reckon with.
India is also a booming economy, a nuclear power, largest contributor of UN peace keepers, largest democracy in the world and soon to have the largest population in the world, India has all it takes to become a world leader.
In the 2007 ASEAN summit, ASEAN countries requested India to take a leadership role in the international community. During the same summit, Japan, Australia and USA approached India to create a new defense network in the Pacific to counter Russia’s and China’s growing influence in the region. Also India has the world’s youngest population under the age of 25. 1 out of every 10 person that lives in the world are under the age of 25 and they live in India.
India has so much potential and has all the resources it needs to emerge as a world leader. Already India is bidding to get permanent membership in the UN and is taking active roles in all regional affairs and UN peacekeeping missions including Afghanistan, Lebanon, Darfur, and Iraq.
P.S. India won all its wars against Pakistan. Pakistan got CREAMED!!! Even with “Allah” on ur side, Pakistan sucks! the mullahs and imams are ruining Pakistan.
By the way, India has more Muslims than Pakistan.
India is the largest non-islamic nation with the largest muslim population.
India is also founding home to 6 religions and has Christianity, Islam, Hindus, Jain, Sikh, Buddhist, Animalism, Zoroastrianism and Judaism.
We are the most secular nation in the world.
India is the perfect example for one of the greatest secular countries in world. Even though 82% of its population is Hindu, the prime minister of India is Sikh, the ruling party leader is a Christian and the President of India is a Muslim.
Jai Hind!
Stop this nonsense.
Live life to the fullest in peace.
lndians say that pakistan was defeated in the past war but pakistans goal is to protect its state and the pakistan people. lndia attacks because lndia doesnt like existence of pakistan.
@badruddin
have u completely lost your mind? Or you really dont know anything about history?….just Google for it, & tell me who attacked whom? Man, its always Pakistan who attacked first in all wars from 1947 to 1999. Don’t speak if you don’t know.
The very existence of Pakistan is because of India & ur sayin India dont like existence of Pakistan!!!…damn! u need a serious history lesson!
At least do u know why Pakistan is fighting for..? They are after Kashmir & claiming for more Indian land…!!! Now Think practically, The country like Pakistan who cant even handle its owned current territory efficiently…. Living on aid given by other rich countries…. who has no promising economy…who has no stable government (still pissed off between Democrats, Dictators & mullahs) & many more…Do you think Pakistan could handle more land & people at current situation? NO… at least not better than India.
India too have its own problems like Population, Poverty, Corruption etc. but India is efficient to handle these problems & can earn its own bread n butter. We have developed our own purchasing power & trying to improve ourselves. Despite of spreading our square kilometers & capturing more land, India is trying to do better in what it already has.
I Won’t overrate India or Call it as Superpower yet….but YES, India has ability to become one. & for Pakistan…they could never ever compete with us, rather Pakistan should compare themselves with Bangladesh,Myanmar & Nepal And excuse me dont underestimate these countries they too have potential.
y r u guys chattn we cant have a war cause we both poses nuclear weaopns, and sure india has an army of great force that could rip through pakistan but they can always throw back 3 atomic bombs and kill millions so cut the crap.taufiq why dont you just shut your trap.
@nofal
taufiq why dont you just shut your trap.
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forums are meant for discussion and exchanging each other views. even though discussions heats up, we should maintain civility. I don’t see any abusive language from Taufiq here, so why he should shut up. If you don’t like the topic then don’t read it.
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hey anyone tell me how to add the flag. thanx
Hey Guys, one thing i would like to mention here is that when the division took place in 1947, Pakistan got the worst part of land and all the creamy/wealthy part went towards India due to improper division and falsy nature of British and Hindus. We didnt get the committed part of our land. Similarly in every respect Pakistan didnt get its due share including military, aircrafts, railways, airlines, foreign exchange/reserves etc which are the building blocks of any nation. So Pakistan starts from scratch. So Pakistan was a new born baby actually due to injustice and favorisim towards India in all respect.
Despite of this fact Pakistan gave a very tough time to India and now from 28May 1998, India will consider billions of times to do anything with Pakistan. That new born baby who was a victim of that injustice has now become the Nuclear Power. And the technology of pakistan in neclear has an edge over india due to Solid Fuel tech. in missiles. Our missiles will reach at each corner of india before India can do anything.
All of u can see that the whole western world and non-muslim countries are now frightened by pakistan and they are all trying to destroy the nuclear tech. of pakistan. So the point is “That baby has now become something by which everyone is in panic and in pain”
So my point is that when both the countries got freedom, India were stable in every respect but Pakistan starts from scratch. So Pakistan achieved all this in much smaller time. Now it doesnt matter to us that how India is big, how it has big army, aircrafts, navy. exports, or foreign exchange/reserves.
Thanks and Regards
ssamir
@ssamir- Mr.Samir, let me remind all of us that the debate originally started with the Firepower as possessed by India n Pakistan and then meandered to war…history…religion and finally degenerated to swearing and abuses.I’ll prefer to start with couple of points.U ve a wrong perception about the entire partition episode.Division had happened on religious lines and each side got the terrain depending upon no. of variables…namely population,demography,regional political leneage,pricely state’s will etc etc. Therefore it is wrong to conclude that British n Indian politicians n beaurocrats handed over the pie to India and the leftovers to Pakistan.Jokes apart, its a fact that charity starts from home.The sentiments of an average Pakistani national vis-a-vis Kashmir and their struggle is understable if being thought from a ideological platform. But the moment religion and brinkmanship starts calling the shots the entire thing aquires a diff. spectre.The real problem between the Indian and Pakistani establishment stems from a mutual distrust for each other. Add to this couple of others probs…namely the fundamentalism that Pakistan chose to walk with,Fear of again being fractured by Indian Forces(Read 1971),obsessed by Pan Islamic causes more than its domestic problems,Nostalgia of pre British Muslim rule,Fear of public opinion getting in favour of Indo Pak cohesiveness and more transparency that would ultimately put to question Jinnah’s two nation theory that Hindu n Muslims are two states and can not live together. So the easiest way is to keep fostering mutual hatred n maintain a self engulfing anti India rhetoric. Now as about the military might n will of both the armed forces…India earlier used to follow the Anglo Saxon military doctrine which believed in big standing armies taking possession of as much territory as possible during wars that can be used for bargaining afterwards…post 1971…India has literraly adopted the German school of war doctrine called Blitzkrieg or total war. This involves sweeping n rapid use of force using all the three wings, ground,air and water.This is very aggressive and overwhelming.Believe me with the kind of force at its disposal India can annihilate likes of Pakistan in no time.Pakistan on the otherhand maintains a colour band army wherein personnels move in and out of the regular combat formations and thus loose the cutting edge as displayed during the Tololing and Tiger hill battles.The Indian forces,namely Rajputana Rifles, J&K Lite, 18 n 16 Grenadiers, Gorkha were mounting a straight face uphill assault,which normally results in 5:1 casualty that too without crossing the LOC, whereas the Pak regulars were well entranched uphill and still couldn’t save their bastion. Their formations were sloppy n often peculiar.220 Medium and Heavy RT guys at times literraly laughed at them and we somedays had a feast time smoking them out. So the moral of the story is untill Pakistani Military establishment doesn’t starts changing some of their off the beat training exercises at the grass root level and come out with a genuine Military Doctrine…mere procurement of hardware from overseas won’t do even an iota of good.So finally we are left with the Nuclear clause and the ultimate threat that Pakistan has time and again made to draw attention of the international community and deter India from any misadventure.Well…the issue is somewhat tricky…though couple of things are very clear.India has a no first use policy so the question of India going first is improbable.There are couple of technical things called strategic depth, second strike capability and containment.Unfortunately Pakistan has none of this…meaning even if Pakistan manages to strike first on Delhi n Mumbai(Its warheads often gets similar strike path algorithms, LOL), India has the strategic depth to withstand the attack albeit at a huge cost, infact probably contain the attack…cause the cruise missiles Pakistan would use,(they will never risk trying one of their painted Non Dong SAMs) flies at 0.7 Mach…too slow and probably inaccurate. And with India’s second strike capability, what will follow is unthinkable, even an average Pakistani think tank wouldn’t like to dream, TOTAL ANNIHILATION. Pakistan will cease to be on the world map.
@Kumar(India)
thanks.
Flag is automatically added by website. I think they recognise it by e-mail id like .co.in = India co.pk = pakistan & similar OR may be they r using IP address to trace the country.
@ssamir
I Think you got your answer. right?
@Gozmi
Impressed.
@kumar
You are clearly protecting taufiq as i used hard language and i do appologies but as Taufiq made fun of urdu,and saying that them wiih nukes are a “Drunken Monkey Holding Grenades.”
17 aug 9:39pm
@Abey
I have noticed that the Pakistanis tend to use more harsh words but it could be a language bias. Indians are better masters of English than Pakistanis and thus could put their words more precisely and clearly.
Abey, would differ a bit.There is actually no language bias in this context. Both Pakistanis and Indians predominently use a language that is collectivelly called “Hindustani” in linguistic and phonetic parlance. Though Urdu has more Persian n Arabic mix and Hindi has more Sankrit words…however the base line is 80 % similar and moreover this slight difference can not be an apt excuse for using abuses, that too in “Hindustani” and not English.
Dear pakistani and indians
I really dont know whats wrong with you guys, whenever i came across, found both sides pulling each other legs…For God sake be realistic and honest to your countries…Did you guys ever realise how many people die of hunger every day in your countries…Indian claims…O’ 2nd largest army etc..bla bla…..Pakistan more advanced missile force etc….want to know since from our independence what price we have paid for this………..
India…..over billion population………70% of its population leaving below poverity evaluation ,cant earn in a day to serve two times a day…42 percent dont have their homes, living on footpath from generations..etc….
Pakistan over 16 kroars…32 % leaving below proverity line……15 to 25 percent dont have dwelling for themselves etc………you guys can confirm my given information……. 2006-07 united nations report…..
Even with all such miserable conditions of people still going to fight an another war…..I ask to you guys why? just because you are vedandists and we are moslems? that doest make sense…..All I want to say is that its a game of politician aswell as both country Milatary leaders, who do not want peace among the two countries people and want to suck its blood for their lavish livings nothing less or more……..
In last I would like to say that for God sake lets finish this enemity once for all and be friends for ever and serve each others and lets make agreement we will never be used a mean in hands of these hypocrite politician and milatary leaders……
Bilal
@nofal
I have tried to keep my sophistication at my best so you better read everyone’s (especially big khan’s & umer’s) posts…they used more abusive language than mine so why don’t u ask them to shut up? & by the way Isn’t that abusive to ask someone to shut up??
grasp clearly…I didn’t insulted Urdu… I suggested AliGhori, that dialect he was using was neither a proper form of Hind & nor Urdu.
I hope u got it.
@Bilal
Wrong Figures. get a link.
I think people are not aware about the total destruction who will start first. but one thing is prety sure that no body knows who will attack first and the rest will save how much to take the revenge. coz the he will use the remaining source of ………………….. with a regenging style.
so it will not be good for those who will attack first..
@Taufiq
its not my intension to cretisize your country what I want to say is to live like true friends………aswell as my figures are concern you should check 2006-07 UN report or if you dont believe in that…you should visit roads of Delhi you capital city…still 80000 cycle rakshas are on full swing….millions still leaving on service roads……..I don’t want to pay further words………Im sorry
I really appreciate the sayings of ssamir, He really said very well and every one should read his words twice. This is the truth now.
@Shoiab
Your appreciation of ssamir stems from sheer ignorance about the crux of the matter. Read my response posted above.
@Bilal
Though I am moved by your emotional appeal, still think the data is misappropriated.
Link please Mr.Bilal.
@Taufiq
Please don’t give bequests to likes of Bilal. He doesn’t seems interested anyway nor does he seems getting what is meant by credible statistics.
@Mirza Tahir Baig
#$@%$#@%#$%^$@&^@!%???? What was that? Martian linguistic???
@Taufiq
its pretty intersting to say , you guys still live in India and for every fact and figures needs, links is this a cretiria for judging something or accepting other people words?C’mon dear be realistic….
@Gomzi
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/14/1087065082773.html
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/ind-summary-eng
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:mnOe6_fnD3kJ:cvc.nic.in/vscvc/cvcspeeches/sp3aug01.pdf+
cycle+rakshas+in+delhi&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=pk&client=firefox-a
I’m sorry dear i missed the original figure its 500000 Lakhs cycle rakhshas running on delhi muncipality……………
and if you do need more you can ask for …….
Reading 2nd time, simply its brilliant ssamir. Please reply more in this regard. We all pakistani needs you in this discussion.
My vote also goes towards ssamir, BRAVO ssamir. He has given a lesson to the world with pride, honor and brave.
Hey ssamir fantasitic. I never thought it like that! I always underestimate my country infront of India. But now my eyes are open. Thanks ssamir.
Pakistan Zindabad.
@
Gomzi
I read your boar reply. I think u should leave this forum after ssamir’s reply. You are boaring this forum now. So plz quit.
umer this is 4 u
do u know that pakistan only signed that they were defeated by india after kargil war n immediately rushed to US 4 finance help.umer just b carefull in ur words.
RAZAK this is 4 u
v r having many muslims than u,allah wil pray 4 good people(india)
usman this is 4 u
do u know that ur country is depending upon US 4 money,urs is not democracy.
so all pakistani’s shut ur mouths n help ur country 4m that bloody dictatorship of musharaf
@Bilal Afridi
Mr.Bilal can you please paste that UN 2006-07 report Link here? I searched on the net…but I didn’t found any!
Your saying Delhi has 80000 riksha walas, but those riksha walas at least earning on their own. But do you know Islamabad has 80000+ beggars….? Your saying millions are still living on service road in India but do you know that, more than millions in Pakistan don’t even have roads? May be India is poor but you should notice Pakistan is poorest.
Mr. Bilal I got much more data about your country to paste here & that will certainly make you cry. In fact I have pasted few of them in my old posts, but those are just about military….if you really want to know about Indian Economy..which ranks 4th in world… I could help you in that case, to know about real India. but sorry this thread only deals with Military Strength NOT with economies.you can open your own thread about India Vs Pakistan Economic Strength & you’ll find us there. ….And about friendship, ain’t you forgetting something..? India had alway s spread his hands for friendship but you guys replied us with war. (remember Kargil..?) So please don’t spray about friendship. I’m sorry too, & It wasn’t my intention to criticize your country too.
@Shoiab
It seems you are running out of words. You are free to quit. don’t ask others to quit.
Basically I am an indian.but i have the muslim friends too.According to me i don’t like to argue with you about wars .
some guys quote that “India is big power and pakistan too” and something like that.
Don’t mistake me
I know what was happened in india and pakistan during the past war times.thousands of people used their blood to wet the land and thousands of people lost their dads,mums,childs & so on.
plz you guys don’t argue with foolish matter . PLZ LET OUR CHILDREN TO SHAKE THEIR HANDS.
NOTE:
I am someone for you ,when you feel no one for you .
I hope you too.
Have nice days
@Ganeshmoorthy
I am also a peace loving soul…& aware of aftermath caused by war. But if the thread is about military, discussions of war is unavoidable. Nobody here is supporting war except some imbecile Indians & Pakistani heads.
@ssamir….
Don’t blame others for your weakness. Now your crying about improper division!?!
typical coward’s “glass is half-empty” attitude!
good, good, you know what..? “Half a loaf is better than none.” & “You reap what you sow.” sayings perfectly fits you.
But still I would like to thank you because
at least you admitted that India is more powerful & stable than Pakistan & that Pakistan is a baby.
Thanks a lot. Thats what I was trying to prove in my above post that Pakistan is baby & amateur in all sense.
You boast a lot on your Nuclear weapons & missiles but do you know?…that world is holding these powers decades before Pakistan (India in 1974). It seems baby Pakistan is thrilled with these new toys….& desperate to use them.
Don’t think you would be able to use nukes n missiles & nobody will notice
do u know something called “spy satellite”? I know you don’t…so please be kind to read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1679321.stm
You’ll be doomed before you begin. alright?
Your boasts about nuclear weapons & missiles to threat world clarifies that Pakistan is Terrorist country.
@ “”Pakistanis”" all around…..people you need to get hold of some self respect….respect others and u’ll be respected…to be really honest you guyz are embarassing me quite harshly.
“”indians”"……being rational and sensible….i would like to appologise on behalf of the pakistani community for the roudy language used by some of the participants from pakistan.
the discussion: i would suggest pakistanis to buy some books get hold of some literature and give some references rather than replying out of emotions and that too saying anything that is’nt even legible on the 21st century laptop screens. read your history…find your roots…and then reply to the blogs.
to everyone: i wont be here again coz maybe i wont be able to find enough time or maybe i wont even remember this url. but i would suggest it to everyone involved, be it pakistani, indian, german, american or be it from any other nation, to keep calm and act like gentlemen. and keep that fact in mind that you are representing your countries over here.
Peace or War:
the Indo-Pak history has been in shambles as i’ve seen it. i cannot trust any media source or anything else for that matter. manipulated media, reports, blogs, books they are believed to exist in every country. i would suggest the participants to get hold of the unit diaries. every Military Unit in India and Pakistan has a book that is updated on a daily basis. its more like an autobiography of the unit that has no end and begins on the raising day of that particular unit. as far as i think that is the best source of relevent and trustworthy information available in both the countries under scrutiny (as i see it happening here). the Indian units that enountered Pakistani units and vice-verca in all the wars fought so far, covert or otherwise, know of the reality that has been embedded in their histories.
Now the best and reliable thing that i would believe would be the statement which is common in both the diaries(indian and pakistani). anything thats common amongst two enemies and their claims is nothing but truth. Now its up to the people participating here how they think of this. i can asure you its an honour when you see your enemy praising your ability/progress/capability/strategy
i wish this forum a happy ending. i was around here just as a coincidence as i was working on a research paper for my university. i wont be back. maybe i would. i happen to be son of an Ex POW, a great officer who had commanded his unit in one of the wars, had escaped the POW camp twice, the Officer in charge of the camp caught him twice and warned him if he’s caught the third time he’ll be shot. The third time my father got lucky and could not be caught. i have plenty of unit histories from both the countries. Mostly from the pakistani side as i have access there and its hard to get hold of them from the indian side.
i have read about an indian general being caught behind enemy lines (Lahore, 1965)
i have read of one indian Sherman (some horse regiment whose exact number i cant recall) bogging down three pakistani tanks despite of being outnumbered (Chammb, 1965)
i have read of a pakistani pilot who shot down the most indian jets in the least possible time
(Sq Ldr. M.M.Alam, flying an F-86 Sabre shot down 5 indian Hawker Hunters in less than 2 minutes and 20 seconds) a record to date, honoured by the indian air cheif who happened to be a warrior back in ‘65 not knowing he would live or die, not aware he’d be leading the the indian airforce. (Pathankot, 1965)
i have read of pakistani officers praying behind an indian officer imam.
i have MET indian BSF officers on a checkpost near Chor sector in Khokhrapar, Rajhistan/Cholistan and had tea with them. officers from both the sides meet every month, exchange pleasentries, and both of them accuse the politicians (both indian and pakistani) of plagerizing the minds of the people for their own political mileage and interests. and there wrongdoings in turn make the friends on the borders for an eyeball to eyeball match, as for these brave men(both sides again) of the soil, the Line of Duty cannot be compromized. Pakistani soldiers are not Bulletproof Monks neither are the indians. Losses in wars are inevitable. a world without wars is also inevitable.
For Pakistanis:
before dragging in Allah for your help you should become a good muslim. consult books.
For Indians:
India has an edge over Pakistanis in terms of Language and vocabulary. Be sincere enough and be polite enough and use terms and words that make it easier for them to understand. Dont underestimate your opponenets. maybe they have valid points and just cant express them.
USA underestimated Veitnamese people because they could’nt speak their language. to date there are all the kinds of syndromes related to the veitnaam veterans and most of them are still high on morphine and are addicted to it.
The point is there are true heroes of every nation. Patriotism runs in the bloodlines. Indians and Pakistanis were living together for centuries. and both the countries’ people gave away precious lives for the sake of getting rid of the East India company. and other colonialists. I love Pakistan and am working for it. Indians love India in the same way. Rationality prevails. so everyone be rational.
Thanx if you read it alll. real pateince comes here.
@Farooq Qazi
Hats off to you & your thoughts.
as far as war is concern both countries r just developing. After every war no dought one who lose gets the damage but the winner also takes time to recover back, so no matter who ever wins but after the war basically no one will win. This current age is economical age we should develope ourselfs econmically.
Your threats doesnot mean any more. Game is over India. Supermacy of India vanishes after 28May 1998. All the justifications and reasonings by indians are now null and void. Ha ha ha ha.
By the way all of the indians in this forum looks to be in serious pain by ssamir’s reply. What a punch by ssamir! I really impressed.
Listen Indians, pakistan is no more baby and amateur after 28May 1998. Read ssamir’s comments once again. I am also seeing indian’s frustration. So dont try to explain and hide the fact. Pakistan is now NUCLEAR POWER. Thanks ssamir once again.
@Bilal Afridi
i think you just made a random googling, and copy paste without taking any effort for analysing or even read it.
here goes ur links
Link1
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/14/1087065082773.html
its an article written in June 12, 2004 - 9:08PM (Author Unknown). Facts and statistically analyzed data are absent here.
Link2
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/ind-summary-eng
It talks about human rights, tsunamis and violence
here is a link from the same website
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/pak-summary-eng
Link3
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:mnOe6_fnD3kJ:cvc.nic.in/vscvc/cvcspeeches/sp3aug01.pdf+
I don’t consider the above link as a website, it looks like someone has copy paste a junk from word document.
corruption is there in India, but not only in India.
rekshas? what’s wrong with that? its a type of self-employement. 500000 Lakhs or its 5 lakhs whatever it is those things will not stop a nations progress.
@ssamir
any countries progress is need to be appreciated, i appreciate your countries progress. but i don’t know why ur justifying history using religion, remember this is a public forum. dinosaurs are history now, but no one knows the exact fact about its extinction.
@taufiq
Pakistan is poorest.
excuse me butif you go on wikipedia and see that 30% of india ’s population are extremely poor.Pakistan’s population is approx..160 million.India has 1 billion people and 30% of that is about 330 million bigger than the whole population of pakistan.As ssamir said that india had all the wealthy parts it still hold the highest number of poor people.
@ssamir
Impressive!
@Farah, Asad, Shoiab
What’s this paranoia concerning ssamir’s post? And excuse me when did ssamir
reply??? He posted a erronous post which I simply corrected in response.
And plz buddies….stop this gung ho rapture..”Pakistan is no baby…Pakistan is NUCLEAR power…
India has lost the edge after 28th May’98….etc etc. This isn’t taking the discussion anyway.
We are discussing the strategic aspects of the military might of one vs the another in pure
academic sense….no reason to get so sentimantal and nervy….Keep coming out of some more interesting stuff so all that all of us can read,learn and brainstorm.
@Farooq Qazi
Refreshed…Revitalised and Relieved. Badly required some serious and factual stuff from the other end…and to tell you honestly this was the first one to reackon with. And yes dude…point taken would try to keep the words simpler. And yes…I share something similar…service background of three generations. Request…do you have any stuff from ur side bout the Chamb,Jaurian and Naushera battles of 65?
@Taufiq
:)Seems our friends don’t like my presence…have I been very roudy,abusive and boring? ‘-)
Mr.Ssamir, Did you know that after independence India gave Rupees one crore to Pakistan as aid? But Pakistan utilised that money to invade Kashmir during 1948. I don’t understand why some people in Pakistan still talk about Muslims vs Rest of the world or Muslims vs Hindus etc.. There was no Pakistan during the freedom movement and Pakistan did not faught with the British for its independence. India is a proud country with largest Muslim population in the world, even more than your country’s Muslim population. A nuclear war will destroy both India and Pakistan and so there is no sense in talking about a nuclear war or who got an edge over nuclear weapons. India is a responsible nuclear power and follows no first use policy of nuclear weapons. Even Indian missiles can reach anywhere in Pakistan. Times are changing and we should move forward to achieve peace and glory.
@Mr.Taufiq
Yeah’ UN 2006-07 report is accessible and you can find it in any big book store and if that isn’t possible give me your mailing address I will send it to you, let me know if you do need anything from Pakistan, NWFP.
I’m glad that you accepted the truth that capital of India, (Delhi) contains more than half a million cycle Rakshas, and I am agreed with sensible arguments of yours that atleast they earns their livings, however such things can easily evaluate the development of a nation economy or poverty evaluation. I invite you to visit Pakistan once in life (I’ll bear all your expenditures) and see things with your own eyes…Aswell as your argument on Islamabad is concern, you should ask any Indian, who ever visited Islamabad or other cities of Pakistan, perhaps you are also effected by propaganda of Indian government channels, I guess you never happened to read the comments of your own politician , whom after visiting Pakistan praises its glory.
buddy I’m not saying that Indian isn’t progressing these days, for last three years Indian GDP raises upto 7 % annually, but the fact is Pakistan made more progress in 15 years then done by Indian since independence. Pakistan annual growth rate is between 7 to 9 % annually, last year our economy growth rates 3rd highest in world, for further detail see. CIA fact sheet…….and your complements regarding friendship that India had always spread his hands for friendship but you guys replied us with war. (remember Kargil..?), my sincere apologies, would you like to answer;
1-whos responsible for 1948 war, what were the factors behind that war…..I guess you know well….indian army invaded Kashmir.
2- any idea of Operation chakravartan” I don’t think you ever heard of it………1965 for liberation of Pakistan Kashmir…..
3-1971 proxy war and later on invasion of Dhaka…resulted into separation of Pakistan……
4- 1973 who occupied Gargil, Drass, Battallik, Cheenoza, etc…sectors….
5- who occupied schyachin Pakistan or India?
6-who brought 800000 lakhs army on border in 1990 Pakistan or India?
7-who was ready for making another war in 2002 Pakistan or India?
Be realistic my friend Indians always betrayed on name of friendship and sincerity “there is any old saying in India regarding you guys……….Moo may Raam Raam baghal may chuori” instead of all those sarcastic acts of India, we are ready to live like friends and still want to resolve all disputed matters not only for ourselves but also for sake of our upcoming generations…….Best wishes
Pakistan’s nuclear technology and delivery systems are too primitive and too small to create any concern for the ‘western world’ or ‘non-muslim countries’. No country has attempted to destroy Pakistan’s nuclear facilities although it would take no more than a few precision strikes on strategic points to eliminate Pakistan’s nuclear stockpile. But then no one is really bothered.
It needs a lot more than a couple of low yield nukes to create anything like panic or pain. The yield of Pakistan’s entire nuclear stockpile is less than single warhead of United States or Russia. Your obsession with creating ‘pain and panic’ for others is sadistic, unhealthy and well…kind of silly.
The division of both these countries were based on their demographic ratios. It is always better to look at reality and consider facts instead of resorting to emotional blame games. Pakistan’s problem is largely because of excessive economic and military dependence on USA, a series of dictatorship and an unhealthy obsession with religion, so much that it completely overcomes reason and logic. India’s success is mainly because of secular democracy, economic self reliance and independent military development without foreign pressures.
Not really. Both India’s Agni and Pakistan’s Hatf series missiles are fuelled by solid propellants. Although both missiles have about the same maximum ranges (~2000 km), India’s missile can strike every part of Pakistan whereas Pakistan cannot do the same, as India’s territorial depth places a large part of its territory beyond the reach of Pakistan’s missiles.
[Global Security WMD Database- India ] [Global Security WMD Database - Pakistan]
The United Nations publishes thousands of reports a year and none of them is named as ‘UN 2006-07 report’. The burden of proof lies on you when you make a claim, you can’t go on giving vague hints and ask for addresses, which no sane person here is really going to give you.
Perhaps you could provide the sources you derive your claim from? Pakistan’s GDP growth rate for 2006-07 is 6.5% against India’s 9.7% according to sources compiled by Wikipedia. Pakistan stands at 51st rank globally in GDP growth rate for 2006. The CIA Factbook you mention places Pakistan’s GDP growth at 59th rank, a far cry from the 3rd rank you claimed.
[List of Countries by GDP Growth Rate - Wikipedia]
@ dmitri
India’s missile can strike every part of Pakistan whereas Pakistan cannot do the same,
I agree, india missiles can reach any where in pakistan.
But Pakistan can do the same with it’s ghauri III with a range of up to 3500km.
@Bilal Afridi
Mr. Bilal there is something called “Credible Sources” get hold of them. Or rather you just simply read Dimtri’s post above which is perfect example of “genuine” post. Swearing & lies not going to make your country look respectable.
Give me your e-mail id & I’ll send you A DICTIONARY which will define what is Military & What is Economy (& yeah What is a reliable sources too). I remind you again that this thread is about “MILITARY STRENGTH” not about ECONOMY and if you want to debate about Economy please open a new thread. I will clear your misunderstandings there.
@Dmitri
or rather its time I should say quits atleast 4 now before another round of “Shut ups…n.. u r boring us” stuff comes up. 
Neways Thanks again….would visit you again…soon.
Thanks a billion for making things clear for both ssamir and the rest. I was kind of aghast…confused at the overwhelming cheers at his post. I think even you would agree that the thread is getting popular
@Gozmi
Perfect Dictatorship isn’t it? Thanks to those Mullahs & Dictator(s) They are really helping to keep Pakistan down & allowing to get used by other rich countries for their own political purpose.
Yeah It seems Pakistani brothers are hurt by your truth & trying to toss you out… but don’t worry … its usual in Pakistan:When truth is spoken heads are flown .
@nofal about Economy.
It seems you rely on Wikipedia very much.(Good). I suspect your grasping ability so I suggest you to visit Wikipedia again…
Is it your habit to lie OR you are kind of a native Pakistani person who is immigrated to UK & just want show India down? I suggest you better visit Wikipedia again & see that 25% (NOT 30%) Indians are living below poverty line in 2002. 24% in 2006 (IT, Automobile, Telecommunication Industry Booms). I am pasting these Lines directly from Wikipedia here:
“The economy of India is the third largest in the world as measured by purchasing power parity (PPP). When measured in USD exchange-rate terms, it is the twelfth largest in the world, with a GDP of US $1.0 trillion (2007).[1] India is the second fastest growing major economy in the world, with a GDP growth rate of 9.4% for the fiscal year 2006–2007.[2] However, India’s huge population results in a per capita income of $4,031 at PPP and $885 at nominal (2007 estimate)”
So the bottom line is: Despite of population & poverty India has developed its own purchasing power parity (PPP) and is able to feed its people while Pakistan cannot & that is why “Poorest”. You are a King of misunderstandings Mr.nofal.
Taufiq:
Despite of population & poverty India has developed its own purchasing power parity (PPP) and is able to feed its people while Pakistan cannot & that is why “Poorest”.
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and here is the proof http://islamabad.usembassy.gov/pakistan/h06101803.html
@nofal about missiles & in General for everyone.
NO, Pakistani missiles are unable to cover all parts of India because of India’s ABM & TES (Read below for more about these) & because India is geographically large & that too with some natural advantages like tall Mountain ranges in central India (North region of Maharashtra Province known as Satpuda Mountains). Ghauri III 3500 km, can damage nothing but few Indian cities, Whereas Indian missiles can literally hit all corners of Pakistan (& perhaps beyond Pakistan, see link) I said literally means literally If you don’t believe please see>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Agni-III_Ranges.png
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Pakistan’s Ghauri III with range of 3500 km means nothing against India’s Agni -IV (July 2007) with 5500 - 6000 km of range & on background of ABM & TES.
SOURCE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni_missile_system
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Agni.html#INTRODUCTION:%20AGNI-IV)
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Basically India’s Missile Technology is built to compete with global might & India’s biggest threat China. Fortunately with the successful test of Agni-III, which has a range of 3500 km, India can target most of Chinese cities including Beijing and Shanghai.(PS: Chinese Missile Tech is far more advanced than India & Pakistan) Pakistan’s missile technology stands nowhere for India. Addition to this India successfully tested Anti-ballistic missile system(ABM), called the “Exo-atmospheric Interceptor System” in Nov 2006. Which promises 99.8% of successful Interception. The system is undergoing for more advance development (See Video & Link). India became the fourth nation in the world to acquire such a capability and the third nation to develop it through INDIGENOUS efforts. India also became the second nation after the U.S.A to use the Hit to Kill technology in its Anti ballistic missile(SOURCES are listed below). Again addition to this, India had lunched his OWN Spy Satellite known as “Technology Experiment Satellite (TES)” in 2001. With TES India can pick up images even of a truck moving along the border area of Pakistan. With TES, India is the second country in the world after the USA that can offer images with one-meter resolution.
So, the Pakistan’s dream