The French Problem in America
Captain Sasha June 6th, 2010
I have a French acquaintance who works in Dakota. He speaks fluent English and graduated from a reputed British university. While in the US, everytime his colleagues say hello to him, they’d throw their arms up in a gesture of surrender. They say it just friendly and there is nothing mean in this gesture since it is well-known that the French always surrender. For the Americans, it is just clean humour. Understandable.
Example of anti-French sentiments in the US media.
Now let us extend the joke to other communities. If the Americans encountered a Jew, would they make a gesture of greediness? Or a gesture of getting burnt in the oven perhaps? If they met a black, would they make a gesture of slave labour? Of course not. Such an act would be decried as an act of racism against these groups. So why is it fair game with the French but not with others? I’ll leave the answer to the Americans, while I dissect the extent of French bashing in the US media and public.
On January 26, 2010, a New York Times editoral came up with an article titled, “The Taliban would applaud“, on the subject of the French ban on Burqa. Once again, a US news agency adopted a scornful and insulting tone against a foreign nation, on the basis of American self-persumed moral superiority. According the the NYT, the ban on the burqa infringed on individual liberties. Little did the columnist delve into the culture secularism in France, or how the Burqa is used as a primitive tool of oppression against women of Islamic backgrounds, violating the French values of equality.
Apart from these anecodal instances, there is also a constant bashing of France and everything French by comedians and media anchors in United States. Jay Leno and Sean Hannity are popular comedians in the US who have made millions for their producers by floating the anti-French agenda. Bill O’Reilly, a popular American TV show host never fails to disburse his hatred of France in the form of political commentary. Apart from that, there are hundreds of websites run by Americans, with the intention of preaching disdain and hatred of the French people, culture, politics and the Francophone influence.
So why this hatred against the French? Perhaps our American readers could explain.
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- Comments(27)
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Firstly let me say at the current time that there are VERY FEW Americans who have real disdain for France or the French. Though many felt betrayed when you wouldn’t come with us on our somewhat mislead adventure in Iraq, since we feel France is still in our debt.
This feeling comes from most Americans limited knowledge of history, which mostly consists of “we saved your ass twice in ww2 and ww1.” Not to mention the fact that we funded your war in Indochina so you could attempt to keep your imperialist empire alive, though that ultimately failed. As well as us fighting our longest war in Vietnam where we tried to keep a “Democratic” govt in power against the same forces you were defeated against (Vietminh= Vietcong) who were now armed and funded by both USSR and China. This lead to our only real “defeat” since our public wasn’t willing to sacrifice any real number of casualties (compared to previous wars) for a country nobody heard of despite great military success. So we left the divided country with a cease fire knowing it would only be a matter of time before the south would fall.
Back on track, I think that Americans at least (I cant speak of Europeans since my interaction is limited) tend to make fun of Canadians (Ay), French (surrender), Australians (shrimp on bar b), and a few other of our friends, simply in good humor and friendliness.
This is not racism since French people are not a race.
Furthermore I believe many Americans (mostly couples) would love to go to France, and find the culture and people very romantic.
Take into consideration I am someone who supports conservatives like Oreilly (just read his book… it was ok) and Hannity. They may make a comment now and then but the anti-french bandwagon ended at least five years back. Many Americans support the new ban on the Burqa and I agree it is oppressive and backward and has no place in a free society. I hope this informs you on American sentiment and our sense of humor.
From what I have observed, ‘American humour’ is a paradox. They like to joke at the expense of other nations and people, but when the joke is on them, they react in indignation. For Americans, calling a French a ’surrender monkey’ is good humour, but when they are called ’stupid’ for their ignorance, it becomes “anti-Americanism”.
I have also observed that the Arabs can’t take a joke either. But their redemption is that they are not hipocritic about it, they don’t cut jokes at others’ expenses the way Americans do.
All societies have their own sense of humor and American humor does laugh at the expense of others. Personally I think British humor is quite dry and most Asian humor shallow and well… lame, and they don’t understand sarcasm very well.
I think calling someone a surrender monkey is in good humor. Calling someone stupid is a blatant insult.
When a joke hits home, it becomes an insult. Perhaps you find it an insult because the average American is indeed stupid.
A real insult would be calling Americans the new-age Nazis or paedophiles, two behaviours that are more prevalent in United States than most other nations, in this day and age.
Really? I would have thought better from a Brit. I think anyone who speaks English would find being called stupid an insult.
Whatever you feel about the American government is irrelevant. It is true that our govt is becoming more totalitarian and the US is becoming a police state, but let us remember that we still have more rights than your citizens guaranteed by a constitution as well as less supervision of our citizens than the heavy police state of the UK.
Nazism is far more prevalent in Germany if you mean by flag waving Nazis. As far as pedophilia why don’t you again look to Europe for the highest number of pedophiles who travel abroad for sex. Its just in the US that we enforce the laws more heavily.
I think your view on Americans is very ignorant, which is ironic for someone who is complaining about Americas views on the French.
I am not a British. I am an expatriate, a concept which will probably sound foreign to you. Also, you might want to invest in a new calender. The year is 2010, not 1945. Nazism no longer exists in Germany. It is a heavily punishable offence to engage in Nazism or Nazi symbolism of any sort in Germany.
Due to the clandestine nature of the industry, no exact statistics are available on the global child prostitution. However, according the WTO “Protect Children” report of 2006, 2/3rd of the world’s child sex tourists are from United States. Which is quite plausible, considering what I have observed in professional encounters in this area.
Hence, if it is fair to consider the French “surrender monkey” for their defeat in World War 2, it is fair to call Americans “paedophile” for having the largest child predator population in the planet. Or to call Americans the “new age Nazis” for having a foreign policy and public opinion that mirror that of the erstwhile Nazi Germany. All in good humour, of course.
Let me repost my reply. Nazism is still alive in Germany as many current demonstrations as well as hostility to immigration has shown, you may want to check on that. Yes it is against the law but in these demonstrations, how many of the arrested people actually get prosecuted? My guess is very few, and definitely not enough to deter the rest.
I agree that the stats are not very reliable since they fail to grasp the true extent of the problem as well as the offenders.
A mental disorder such as pedophilia cannot reasonably affect any population anymore than any other. Also there is a different view on that depending on the society. In the US and western European countries it is a taboo, in the middle east, Africa, and many Asian countries it is seen as acceptable or even common to engage in sexual activity or even marriage with girls from age 9-12. Many Vietnamese guys (actually from the country) usually date girls (in the US) between the ages of 13-15, with the guys age being 18-25. When they have sex this is considered CSC 3rd degree or statutory rape and punishable by up to 15 years. What this example implies is not that these guys are “pedophiles” simply that in their culture it is desirable to get younger girls, not staying strictly at the 18+ age range. Since the US is the most populated developed country its reasonable to assume that we have the highest number of international travelers in general.
As I’ve said before the foreign policy of the US bares no resemblance to that of Nazi Germany. We are nor unifying any fatherland, nor keeping the countries we defeat or liberate.
I am an American living in Asia on an expatriate contract dealing with international trade. There is some truth to my countrymen succumbing to French-bashing as a form of idle pastime or entertainment. It is unfortunate that there are Americans who continue to simply bash against anyone different from them (whether it is within the US or outside).
Allow me to render my own personal opinions based on experience on why this is:
a. Americans have a “different” sense of taste.
In my opinion, Europe has been more culturally and educationally progressive than the US. Europeans, to addle-minded and unfortunately bigotted Americans, come across as quite snobbish and snotty when to the Europeans it is just an exercise of how education and culture has made them less brutish.
There are certain sectors of the American society that continues to question why French language is part of the curriculum, even invoking that it is unnecessary. This is also a symptom of what i call reverse bigotry based on an uninformed and seemingly uncouth culture. If an American feels you are being too sophisticated and more intelligent than them, they will lambast you by glorifying that ours is simpler (even if it means coming across as less educated).
b. Americans have a tendency to be reactionary when it comes to other cultures or differing interests.
History points out how Americans have catered to reactionary tendencies: reacted against native American Indians, reacted against freedom of slaves (therefore the American Civil War), reacted against African-Americans (segregation), reacted against Communism - some falsely reacting too much (McCarthyism), reacted against the Jews, reacted against equality for homosexuals (Prop 8)…
With other countries, Americans have claimed hegemonic dominance, often misplaced, in the guise of peacekeeping efforts. Examples: Spanish-American War, Bombing of Japan in WW II, Vietnam War, Invasion of Iraq - and not to mention military occupation brutalities in Southeast Asia (Philippines, Okinawa in Japan) and the Middle East.
c. A majority of Americans feel a kind of “exceptional” entitlement.
Owing to history and culture, the modern American (often uneducated about global and international affairs) seems to think that everyone is fair game. On a grand-scale, it goes from war-profiteering of the military industrial complex, to the greed in Wall Street, to the controversial execution of US foreign policies, ignoring cooperation within the United Nations, to the simple everyday bashing of anything not American (despite them driving Asian-made cars, electronic gadgets manufactured in Japan, China and South Korea).
So the American when faced with anything he cannot remotely muster through objective intellectual discourse either:
a. makes rabid jokes (bordering on humor at the expense of others)
b. draws on his fears by being too thin-skinned and defensive
c. invades another country (by military, economic and whatever means at its disposal)
As an American, these are grand weaknesses of how i see my beloved country. However, i believe with true education, inclusiveness and individual determination to seek a more informed choice, we will rise up once again and become a true world power, not just in name.
I dont stereotype the french. I try not to stereotype anybody. I believe the reason why we stereotype the french is because we have a cultural rivalry with canada. Most canadians are of french descent and they speak nothing but french in quebec.
As for the people who live in france, they are a lot more liberal than americans are. this means we consider them to be homosexual, womanly, even transy. this is my guess. anyone else who has a more clear explanation about why we stereotype the french? to be honest i have no fucking idea why.
Well, I agree to an extent that such things are overdone in US. But for French they too have no self respect. They were the only country, after II WW who were fighting to keep colonies where greater power like Britain were moving out with mutual respect from most colonies.
Britain didn’t move out of its colonies by choice. They were, for the need of a polite term, ‘kicked out’.
During and after World War 2, there was a civil war in India that culminated into the mutiny of Royal Indian Navy in 1946. England, which was plagued by WW2 destruction and debts, realised it could no longer hold India and declared its independence in 1947.
After losing India, the empire desperately clung to its remaining colonies for over a decade. It was in the 1960s that the nationalist movements in Malaysia and Borneo gained enough momentum to expel the British representatives.
However, I am not surprised you guys learn otherwise. It is the only way to salvage national pride for a country that is not more than a has-been in today’s era.
What you saying for Britain applies to French as well and for your kind information French were hit worst in WW II. But still they went on fighting for colonies. I think you do not know much about Europe. You are not British.
And if you dont know, Britain even today enjoys highest standard of living. So we really dont need colonies. Infact colonies wished we still were there to administer better.
And if you are not British, you shouldnt be living in our country.
@ASGARD
I am not British and I live in Britain. Come and kick me out and ge4t your face smashed with a baseball button.
And Britain isn’t your country. You don’t own it.
I find it hypocritical for this article criticize Americans for insulting the French, then spend the rest of it bashing Americans. I find it funny that the article says this, “Little did the columnist delve into the culture secularism in France,” regarding American ignorance to French culture when the Burqa was banned, since France’s ban of the Burqa stems from xenophobia, and an ethnocentric ignorance of Muslim culture. Has this author of the article every spoken to a person in a Burqa. Ask them why they wear it. Just because the Burqa looks “strange” or “foreign” does not mean it is evil. Yes in some parts of the world it is used to oppress women, but many where it by choice, and if your response to there choosing the wear the burqa as a result of their “brainwashed, backwards culture” and that you know what’s better for them than they do, then you’re worse than most Americans.
No Americans that I know hold any resentment for the French. As a matter of fact the French are a big reason America is no longer a British colony. We did not save Europe from the Third Reich on our own, but without us (and the USSR), Europe would be speaking German and so would we.
Any American that truly has disdain for the French doesn’t realize how much more we are alike that disalike. I am a right wing American and I would absolutely love to visit France. The culture atmosphere and way of life is very interesting.
Americans shouldn’t harass others that way.
France had helped the US in the war for their own independence. How could a bunch of farmers win against the British army? Benjamin Franklin even went to France for a certain “request” and General Lafayette was a French, duh! And because they helped US in that war, they lost so much money without gaining anything profitable. This even led to the downfall of their own monarchy and also to some of the most unstable time for Europe (remember how Napoleon rose to power?). Pls don’t try to act all “I saved your ass in WW1 and 2″. If not because of their help, your nation wouldn’t have even existed! And large amount of your land area came from the “Louisiana Purchase” from the French. duh!
What if the French are losers, France is one literally the country that recieved the foreign tourists, approx. 74 million people a year! Whatever they are, at least they can survive better than the crumbling US.
@ ASGARD
Went on the defensive, did we? Since you admit that the Brits and French were on the same page, you simply regurgitated my argument.
If the former colonies really wished you administrated them, then perhaps you could go to one of them colonies, dig the Union Jack in their soil and proclaim that “the masters have arrived”. Lets see if they end up jubiliant or you end up getting your butt kicked.
I suppose as an american I will shock you because I am educated and can tell you about frances history and connections with the us,and some of the things france does thaty agitate the us.
First, thanks for the statue of liberty!,second thanks for helping us out in the 1770’s with the british even though your country was broke!
Now to modern times……france suffers in america from the perception that france is soft,gay,and cannot keep from being invaded by germany.
France can be a geopolitical pain in the ass….always talks big but can’t back it up,withdrew from nato at the height of the cold war,degaulle was a dickhead,and you guys eat snails!
There is just something about the french dialect that when spoken just irritates me! I’m sorry! France seems to be snobby and sitting on a high horse when the reality is of all major european states france is the strongest on paper yet always loses on the battlefield.
I will stop there though because the truth is most americans are poorly educated and have no idea france has a higher standard of living.
America does not have a social safety net like france, most have been conditioned to believe government assistance is equal to communism! How stupid is that!?
Since 9/11 america has been pushed to the right by fear mongering republicans and most people have fallen prey to the politics of fear because of low education levels and cannot properly debate important issues.
These right wing politicians love to bash france as socialist! Damn socialists!! How dare you provide health care for your people!!!how dare you provide shelter for people with no shelter!!how dare your gov fear the people more than the people fear the gov!!
America is at a crossroads…it can either become progressive and start taking care of its people or go conservative and keep shrinking salaries and concentrating the money into fewer and fewer hands and become a huge banana republic with 10000 nuclear warheads and eventually break up intocivil war
France unfortunatly represents everything conservatives hate. And as so they attack it and ridicule it so that the uneducated masses in america don’t catch on and ask why can’t we have national health care???why can’t we have a social safety net like france???and as long as they cast france and europe in general as socialist and lazy and gay no american will thinkl about that!
France is progressive and the us is basicly running on social darwinism. Just for the record I think the leclerc is thebest mbt in the world.
Hi im one of tho’s uneducated conservitive Americans you speak of. None of you turds seem to realize that none of us care about stupid france. We hate you! the people turning our country into a socialist society. I’ve been in the Army for 4 yrs fighting along side great citizens of America, just so you “smart folks” can ruin what our ancestors built. Obama sucks he really really sucks! what has your fearless leader done so far? ummm pretty much nothing. How did this political retard get elected? Sarah Palin yes the Alaskan super woman would run this country 10 times better. I HATE ALL OF YOU HIPPIE FAGS!
I could not help by to react to this post.
WE FRENCH in return we don’t salute YOUR soldiers when they come to celebrate in Normandy (and soon they will not come anymore, that’a relief thiniking of it)
Despite my fluent English I’d rather die than to help an American in France. Also I use that attitude of comptent that YOU hate so much while visiting France (because it is so exotic) YOU are nothing but braindead idiot stuck in 1940. Days of your long gone glory…
I have family friends that live in France and over the years have been exposed to both cultures. I was appalled in the early 2000’s when the US reacted to the French in such a classless, horrible way for not supporting the unnecessary bloodshed in Iraq.
The size of the United States is what plays a big role in the ignorance demonstrated in the American public. I live in a medium sized town in Northwestern Illinois, and it’s difficult for the average student to find France on a map (I wish this was only rhetorical…).
Honestly I’m happy many Americans don’t travel, for we would have a worse reputation around the world if a greater majority of the ignorant public ventured out of the country. It’s appalling.
Well, just to say Canada did not follow the USA in Iran either because we saw through the lies of GW Bush, and we knew it was only to get the Oil from the French, Russians and Chinese that got a deal with the Iraqian government, so we stayed in Afghanistan and the Americans bashed us along with the French, but we knew that the truth we eventually come out, that it was an INVASION under false pretenses, but we got stuck in the worst region of Afghanistan by ourselves for a long time while other army’s from other countries where watching paint dry in the quiet regions of Afghanistan. So finally, just as in the boarding of Normandy where Canadian soldiers where dropped in first, and most of them killed to save Europe from Germany’s invasion, we silently let the Americans take all the credits of supposedly winning it all by themselves. I guess it is normal if you arrive after everybody else cleared the area and nobody else is left standing, you can just wall in, and on top of dead people and claim victory. But like France Canada is a socialist country of sort, we do care about each other and Education, social welfare and Medicare are our pride and joy, yes right wingers are trying hard to make amendment so that the rich get more special treatment than the poor, but before they can do anything they will have to change the constitution, because private hospitals are forbidden by law and is part of the constitution.
I live in Montreal, Quebec, and yes I am a French Canadian and we had the same debate about religious symbols in the public service and specially in the schools, since we took all sings of religion out of the public administration and school system, we do not want any other religious group to start imposing their believes on others, what they do at home is their business, want they do at school or as a public servant is public affairs, and religion does not have any business in those fields, so it is forbidden to wear or arbor a religious symbol as a public servant nor is it the school business to teach religion at school, it is your parents or community’s duty and it is a private matter, period.
But living for a while in the USA (new-York and Miami) and visiting Europe frequently, I can see that people in the USA will have a hard time understanding that, my interpretation of the USA is that all different communities live separated one from another, they did not blend, they all have their way of doing things like the others did not exist, blacks on one side, white on the other, Hispanics even between themselves are separated by regions of origins, it was astounding for me to see, as I was instinctively going everywhere and people were looking at me as if I was from Mars or Jupiter. Speaking to the Cubans at the fishing sea port, going to buy fresh fish, they all shook their heads thinking what the hell does he think he is doing,… You see, I might be white and French speaking, but at my school (public school that is) their was about 128 different nationalities and we all got along very well, I never saw the difference or felt it. But maybe it is because I grew in a religious free zone…. where all ways of thinking where explained to me.
Or maybe skin Colours and religious believes are not important to me.
Well, as a french person, I already know most of explanations given by french/english/american/canadian bloggers. I have heard them so many times. Most of them regarding France and USA are largely cliché bien sur. Fortunately, few people are interest in this kind of negative, sterile arguments. It really concerns a minority of people.
France like USA has many unsavoury aspects, some foreign and domestic policies make me ashamed in both countries, though of course ALL countries suffer from the same fate in my experience. Racism is still an issue everywhere. Most opinions of the French are shall we say a little negative to say the least, especially in the US.
The emotionally needy, dirty, arrogant cheese eating surrendering monkey find the origin of french bashing in american history. It has been a creation accidentaly made by Roosevelt (during his confrontation with Degaulle viewed in America as a potential dictator). This conflict has been largely amplified by conservative Media and thus, remained. France used to have an excellent image in North America before the 50’s.
Last, most of the articles published today by NYTimes, Ted Turner medias, Wall streets Journal or Jericho Trumpets always include a huge bias, not typically on France but largely on the rest of the globe. My question is simple: it is due to a lack of information or is it made intentionaly on political/economical purposes ? If the typical negative informations released by US Media were true, I guess France should have economically collapse a long time ago. You can apply the same scheme for other countries.
To my american fellows, we do not have american bashing here in France. Only one guy in agriculture, Jose Bove, the one who destroys Mc Donalds and GMO Monsanto fields. For you information, as an anti american activist, he is ironically a pure product of an American University.
I also forget to react to the previous posts published by Marc from France or Scott from the US.
Very smart folks. Their comments help so much. Thanks.
Hello . I am French and live in the United States.
I never had a bad experience being French in the United States, the people are very curious to know where my accent is from and what I am doing here.
United States is different then France and vice versa but at the end of the day we are all people.
Both nations have done good and bad in their history.
I simply like kind,good,educated,open minded people regardless of where they are from.
France just like the United States have ignorant and selfish people but also quite the opposite too.
If an American was going to tell me some joke because of my nationality and being French I would simply try to understand it instead of being angry, and what’s to be angry about anyway? I know who I am .
Peace and love brothers, either you are American,French, Swedish , British or from planet Mars.