Greece as the Least Successful European Country
Captain Sasha June 9th, 2010
“I think all the resentment towards the US has to do with an inferiority complex. This is only heightened by the fact that US popular culture is enormously popular…
The countries in Europe, that are the most anti-American are Greece and Turkey (if you consider Turkey European). No surprise that they are the least successful among European countries. Eastern Europe (at least some countries like the Czech Republic and Poland) is spared from the anti-American tinge…”
- Excerpts from a comment in a blog run by American nationalists.
What surprised me about this was not the inaccuracy of this statement, but the authoritativeness with which it was made. The writer, who goes under pseudonums ‘JM’ and ‘itinerantsoul’ poses as a “well travelled, multi-lingual expert” on Europe. Summing it up, he was saying that the Greek resentment of the US stems from an inferiority complex because they are apparently the least successful among European countries. I could have expected this from a 15 year old whose exposure to the world is Fox News, but a liberal adult American coming up with such tripe?!
Greece: A 4000 year old cultural legacy.
Let us see if Greece is indeed the least successful among European countries. We’ll consider the economy first, the most important parameter of success by Americans. According to International Monetary Fund (IMF) reports of 2009, Greece has a per capita GDP of US $ 29,635, which is almost three times that of Poland ($11,288) and 12 times richer than the poorest country in Europe, Georgia ($2,448). Of the 44 countries in Europe proper, Greece has the 17th highest per capita GDP, which hardly qualifies it as the “least successful” in Europe if economic indicators are taken into account. Surprisingly enough, the Greeks don’t resent the richest countries of Europe like Switzerland or Norway, which should have given it a bigger inferiority complex than the US. I wonder what Mr. JM aka itinerantsoul meant when he talked of Greece as being the “least successful”. Perhaps he referred to culture…
Well then, lets talk culture. When we look at it, no other culture has been more influental in shaping the present day world than the Greek culture. From the words of the English language to mega-sporting events like Olympics, Greek influence is omnipresent. The Greek culture is the most constructive influence in the present day world, including but not limited to - philosophical thinking, scientific method, democracy, sexual pragmatism and medical ethics.
On the other hand, the scope and influence of American pop culture has been rather narrow, limited only to those countries that are allied to and maintain close ties with the United States. Even then, it has not been a good influence. American pop-culture, especially music and movies glorify sexual promiscuity, drug use, wanton violence and sociopathic behaviours. The McDonald’s inspired fast food culture has been responsible for high obesity rates in its closest allies - the United Kingdom and Australia. In fact, the obesity rates of traditionally slim countries like Poland and Czech Republic have shown a dramatic growth, following their open-armed adoption of the US culture since the late 90s.
So now that JM’s presumptions of a “least successful” Greece falls flat on its face, what are the actual reasons that some Greeks dislike the United States? The actual issues are US support of Turkey during Greco-Turkish conflicts, the US led military junta that ruled Greece between 1967 to 1974 and more recently, a general European opposition to the invasion of Iraq (More discussions on that later). Not some pop-psychology “inferiority complex” rubbish by a jingoist who can’t come to terms that foreigners might have a genuine reason to dislike his country. With ignorance sprouted with such authority, no wonder Americans get the reputation of being stupid.
P.S.: Please note the the statement on Greece being the “least successful country” was made by JM in 2008 and hence, has no reference to the debt crisis of 2010. In any case, the debt crisis of 2010 is a good example of why the Greeks have a good reason to oppose the American economic and political models.
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I think you have exaggerated Greece here. There are much older and influencial civilizations in world, some of them actually influenced Greece when most of Europe were nomads. Anyway so even in this context of discussion, I dont think that much Greeks hate USA because of its open support to Turkey but most of educated Greeks are socialist like French are not so open to Capitalist Americans. But joining EU which is main USA ally Greeks have just no option but to get involved in Capitalisation way of life which they simply cannot cope with their less productive and lazy way of life. And thats where the anger comes from.
@ASGARD
“cannot cope with their less productive and lazy way of life”. Me who I don’t want to have a government telling me what to do, what to wear, how to behave, who I don’t want my kids talking to invisible men, me who I don’t want to pay the price cause by a bunch of politicians and rich who did not pay any single tax, who I don’t want to work for 600 euro per month (in a good case) under bad working conditions, does that make me a lazy Greek? If yes, I don’t care.
If fighting for our rights makes us lazy, then that’s it. And I am getting sick of right wingers telling us what is right and what is wrong, what to say what not to say. We don’t want them in Greece and they know it. I am getting sick of all the neo-liberal do gooders telling us “you should expelled from EU because you did not obey the rules”. Of course we should get expelled, as the conservatives at 1979 did not ask us if we want to join the Zooropian Union. Most of the Greek people did not want the Euro, we were happy with the drachma, but you see, the right wing elites and all the media-politicians, the biggest ruffians of the Greek history, not only did not consult anyone but they used they also gave fake statistics to the Euroleaders in order to become a member of this joke. In fact, we don want to get expelled from the EU. The fastest the better. I remember myself when I was a child, just a few years after the collapse of the military dictatorship, the people only wanted sovereignty, equality and peace. Now we have two major parties who do exactly what the far right LA.O.S orders (Orthodox Popular Army). Of course they will confront our resistance while in U$A people would passively accept that crap. But in Greece, these neo-conservative plans will pass only over our bodies.
It is true we have nothing against people of Turkey, as I can declare that my best friend is from there, and many members of my family travel very often to Turkey.
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“No surprise that they are the least successful among European countries”. Greece may be not as rich as U$A but our attitude and our way of life are light years above. We have FREE schools for EVERYONE, FREE health-care, the least expensive housing in Europe. We do not have that millions of homeless dying in the streets every day. Not to mention about crime! In any city in U$A can you walk out in a central street after 22:00 without being followed by thugs? Can a wooman walk alone in London or New York after 21:00? This is what I call civilization. Despite that our economy was always gloomy and the austerity plan has raped our welfare system we can still enjoy some benefits that most of the Western countries will always dream of but never achieve. Why? Because we simply don’t give up the fight. Never did, so we never will. There isn’t more lazy population that the fat U$ conformists who know nothing from the world outside. I am getting sick of all these people talking about Greece. They should shut up, go order some pizzas, laugh in front of Santa Claus, worship Jesus and leave us alone. You guys are nothing more but a cancer to the whole humanity. You country is vile empire. All your glory and money was build upon dead bodies. Go study your history, watch yourselves in the mirror, see where you have ended up and then get back and we continue your discussions. Until then, keep on watching your favorite program on TV and obey as a cattle to every trash they offer you. It isn’t accidental that no one has a good opinion about U$A people. We will talk about that again in a few years. See… Greece, Spain, Gaza, Latin America, Portugal.
Perhaps, Mr ASGARD, you could give an example of any other culture that has as much or more influence in the present day world.
Going by that line of reasoning, the Greeks should have hated Switzerland and Luxembourg as well, since both these countries are more capitalistic than United States.
Perhaps a little more interaction with the Greek people and trying to understand the world from their viewpoint would make your conclusions a little more realistic.
@Captain Sasha
As a Greek anarchist, I can tell you that no one in Greece hates the Americans. People are simply tired with all of the right wingers telling us what to do, what to say. People are simply tired by the foreign policy of the USA, just like the Argentinians, the Chileans, the Bolivians, the Cubans and other countries of Latin America. I think we are very welcoming to anyone from the west but we don’t want these narrow minded people who think that a fascist leader could benefit our country. Anti-Americanism does not exist in Greece only but everywhere in Europe. Despite the fact that the US government played a terrible game supporting the military junta of 1967 I still think that an American person might feel more welcoming in Greece than anywhere else in Europe. The problem is that we have a strong anti-conservative attitude thanks to our great education system who makes us using our brains instead of buying degrees. In fact, it is much harder to study in Greece than many other Western countries.
Second thing, Switzerland is NO WAY more capitalist than the USA. This is huge mistake of you. The fact that it is a rich country it does not make it more conservative-capitalist necessarily. Just check some of the basic things. Welfare, education, prisons, drug policy… Comparing to Switzerland USA is an extreme conservative place. And I don’t think that the Swiss are really different comparing to people from other countries. On the contrary I found them really nice.
@Captain
” Perhaps a little more interaction with the Greek people and trying to understand the world from their viewpoint would make your conclusions a little more realistic. ”
Well, its Greeks who needs world and EU and otherwise. We are not in 200 AD, world has moved on since. People from dark ages have gathered knowledge around the world and enhanced their own living. Just see what Greeks has to offer, if you see in economic terms what they export is similar to what a third world African nation offers, food and textiles. That is not enough in this hi-tech world. I am simply talking in economic terms which is one of the most under-developed EU nation along with new eastern-bloc members.
And again I think Greek dont hate USA but its the system which has hit right into them.
@ASGARD
“its Greeks who needs world and EU and otherwise.”
I repeat again. Nobody has asked us if we want to join the EU. Nobody asked us if we want the Euro. Nobody asked us if we want the IMF. All the politicians do without consulting the people. Most of us did not want to join the EU at 1979 but the conservatives not only did not consult anyone but they gave fake statistics to Brussels. Tell me where is democracy when you vote for a government that does what the Brussels order? Greece is Europe’s testing zone and the fastest we get out the best for us. EU should let us do along with our lives and stop forcing us to accept their rules.
“Just see what Greeks has to offer,”
You are completely ignorant. We have free education and one in the best of the world. Greece has one of the highest statistics in Europe of people who are holding university degrees. We have free health care, the cheapest transport in Europe, the cheapest property market in Europe. Can you live in London with the minimum wage without needing to share a flat? Doubtful! Can you walk out in a street in London after 10 at night without being followed by thugs? Doubtful. Ever checked to see why Greece is one of the safest countries in the world. Me thinks you are very very very jealous.
Yes I don’t despise we are one of the most under-development countries of EU thanks to the conservatives who kept the country backwards for years and years but we do enjoy more benefits than other western countries. I have lived in several other places and I can compare. I can’t imagine how UK would be if the economy was so bad, perhaps a jungle. I am not talking that in a patriotic tone, I can confirm we are the most welcoming people in the world. And of course we don’t hate anyone. The number of people who hate foreigners is insignificant comparing to USA and UK. You are completely uninformed. I feel sorry for you.
plus, we are not as arrogant as you… thankfully!!!
I neither think that Greece is “the least succesful” nor London is one of the worst place in Europe. Actually both Greece and UK are nice. And both nations have shaped the world entirely at a certain time. Although Greece economy is fragile, I think their government are doing their best to prevent further damage. Everyone has their own bad “days” and Greece’s economy is just experiencing them. Asia has faced much worse than Europe in many ways and we did survived. Worst nation in Europe (not Greece nor UK) might be the best place to be if it was in Africa.
@Paul
“nor London is one of the worst place in Europe” I didn’t mention that. I said that London is dangerous due to high crime and generally most of the standards and quality of life in most of the western countries are not so high as they pretend.
“I think their government are doing their best to prevent further damage” You think? So far they brought the International Monetary Fund without even asking the people if they want it. They have tear gassed protesters even 80 years old, they have shot students, policemen are guilty for murdering immigrants. People did not vote for that. This is not what they promised, and if you dare to protest and tell these cheaters to go to hell expect to be arrested and tortured in a prison which looks like the “midnight express”. The government does exactly what the far right LA.O.S orders sometimes and that makes the situation even worse. Instead of bringing the IMF they should find out the number of those who did not pay their taxes (they are not more than 1000 people) and force them to pay otherwise, confiscate their properties, I don’t care what they will do, we will not pay for something that we are not responsible. This government is just like the previous. Socialist in name but more capitalist than everything and works hand in hand with the far right. Also the police is run by the neonazis party a href=”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysi_Avyi” rel=”nofollow”>Golden Dawn torturing immigrants and political opponents. See this video and find the truth for yourself. Greece is under police terror, people are feel more scared by the police force rather than common criminals. A few weeks ago some nazis in Crete forced an Albanian immigrant to put a piece of wood to his bottom and exit it from his mouth. The media said, “he did it himself” but the local people know who was. When they scrap Swastikas and burn cars that belong to immigrants, it is not hard to understand who is it. Just a few months ago, a group of teenagers throw petrol bomb to a Bangladeshi’s family house. You don’t know what you are talking my friend but I am sure nobody tells you that. The government and the mainstream media do not want this image of Greece to be shown abroad so people from other countries do not understand what we are protesting for, what we really want. I am sorry but Greece isn’t what they have told you. Greece is an EU testing zone and we will not let this go further more.
I absolutely love reading your articles. They’re insightful and interesting, which provokes thoughts.
There seems to be an intense vibe of ignorant American hate, though. While it is lovely to have an intelligent read about what spouts such floods of ignorance, it is frustrating (only slightly) to have the knowledge I glean from this post undermined by needless emotion-fed revenge comments.
I definitely see where you’re going regarding where our ignorance is blossoming from.
Let me set up a situation here, that most likely Mr.JM was raised in, and also assume that he has actually not had much exposure to culture as he claims:
I am a teen in the US, and I know very little about Europe. I think it might just have to do with the fact I have never been abroad, and never been exposed to such culture. It could not be afforded. So now I’m left with a lack of comprehension, and then I hear about other countries who “hate” my ignorance. I am also raised in a country where independence and American pride is strongly valued.
So here I have three factors contributing to my ignorance: lack of exposure and education of Europe/other societies, and strong pride in my country, and constant exposure to other ignorant Americans being hated on. Those said ‘haters’ also happen to be members of a country I’ve always dreamed of going to, but now fear the way I will be treated if I ever visit.
Do you see where a young adult or teenager who would have been left, following exposure of said factors, if they were to talk about Europe, (Greece)?
What I am trying to say is, is there a possibility that the reason so many Americans are ignorant and prejudice about other cultures, is because our only exposure to them is stories of ‘hate’ and a lack of education?
Anyways, give us some slack for now.
We’re not all dumb asses, and believe it or not, some of us do dream of educating ourselves further- which is why we read your posts.
@ Anonymous
You seem to have caught up the wrong idea. Europeans don’t hate Americans. They simply dislike some of the things that Americans do to them and the rest of the world. Like for example, the American cultural evangelism and their preying on weak third world nations.
The first thing you need to understand about Europe is that Europeans are highly cultured and hospitable people. They are very capable of separating their political views from social life. As long as you are pleasant and do not shove your Americanism down other people’s throats you are going to be have a pleasant trip, even in the most anti-American part of Europe that you hear about. If it makes you feel any better, Greeks appreciate American tourists more than the British. How you are treated in a country is determined by how your countrymen treat theirs.
And by the way, most Europeans are proud of their nations and thus, value national pride. However, national pride must not be mistaken with cultural evangelism - a belief that your culture is such an epitome of goodness that everyone in the world must be made to subscribe to it, at whatever costs.
I wonder if it is just me or it is real - teenage Americans seem to be more aware and open to other countries than the adults. Perhaps it is a sign of a better future or perhaps, this is a generation that is not yet tainted by years of media indocrination.