Comments on: Burka Ban For Protecting Secularism and Equality http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism The Internationalist Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:29:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: khozo89 http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-66252 khozo89 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:57:23 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-66252 What frustrates me is that, frankly, it's a personal choice - just as walking on a street 'nude' maybe so is wearing a 'burka'. If your policy is 'live and let live' (as often publicized) than you have no right to 'ban' people from whatever they want to or don't want to wear! What frustrates me is that, frankly, it’s a personal choice - just as walking on a street ‘nude’ maybe so is wearing a ‘burka’. If your policy is ‘live and let live’ (as often publicized) than you have no right to ‘ban’ people from whatever they want to or don’t want to wear!

]]> By: BlackFoxGR http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-64951 BlackFoxGR Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:13:10 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-64951 I neither agree or disagree with the French policies. Sarcozy's policies justify the feelings of all the right wing populist elites. Weak people are always used as a scapegoat and nobody can deny it. This is nothing more but an authoritarian showdown in order to remind us that they can f... with us at any time they want. There are a lot of things to do if you want to integrate these people into our society and help them improve their way of life. Remember what the French philosopher has said "FORBIDDING IS FORBIDDEN". Did the French government try to understand how these woomen feel? Do they know that some of them do not really want to get dressed like that but they do it cause they are forced by their families? Ok, let's say we ban the Burka in the public areas but what happens in their private places? @Roy <em>"France don’t have the largest Muslim community in Europe. I think it’s Turkey"</em>. Typically, Turkey is not in Europe. @Frank Li <em>"deport those backward thinkers</em>, but before you stated <em>"it is about time that someone had the courage to make a progressive movement towards equality"</em>. Nice progressiveness!!! Remember “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Voltair again. Would you cut your hand if it was sick? @from utah, the shitholeon "i believe the burka should not be banned. most western muslim women wear it because they choose to" Not really. As I said above, most of them are forced to wear that, otherwise, this is an offense to the invisible man. @SGT. Dela Christianity isn't better than Islam. Every form of organized religion is the same. Islam might be more authoritarian, but the difference is not that huge. Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, African religions... imagine, they all live in a different apartment of the same block of flats. I don't despise that there are Muslim fundamentalists in the West, but so far, what the U$ government does is to take over their land, butcher innocent people, stealing their sources. That's the truth that the U$ Media don't tell you. For more study "Noam Chomsky and the Media" Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo @david <em>"The world has become a global village and we must learn to live together in peace and harmony"</em>. The world has become a huge <strong>corporate</strong> village. We can't have peace as the world is divided in East and West. What are the difference between internationalism and globalization? The first serves the people, the second those with power, those who control the banking system and the media. They spread hatred and bigotry; they hypnotize us with nonsense ideas like patriotism, because without patriotism we have no wars thus the gun industry which is a very important source of incomes, would go bankrupt. It's the tactic of divide and conquer. Bottom line: The real problem is that people are forced to obey religious views. For centuries and centuries religion has been used as a tool to manipulate the masses, to scare us that if we resist the invisible man will punish us forever and ever with the worst way so we have to obey and become passive to everything they tell us if we want to "save our souls". Even if you eradicate Islam, there will come another form of totalitarian religion, regime etc as long as there is PROFIT and monetarism. Even in Europe which supposed to be more civilized, in the isolated areas blind religiousness keeps well. What is they key? Education, information. Schools should not to teach the children to talk telepathically to imaginary friends but things which actually exist. Science, technology, these helped us a few thousand years ago to understand that thunder-lightnings are not caused by angry Gods who had a bad time and wanted to fight each other but it is the law of nature. Technology and solidarity moves things forward. Blind religiousness and separatism leads us back to the heart of darkness! I neither agree or disagree with the French policies. Sarcozy’s policies justify the feelings of all the right wing populist elites. Weak people are always used as a scapegoat and nobody can deny it. This is nothing more but an authoritarian showdown in order to remind us that they can f… with us at any time they want. There are a lot of things to do if you want to integrate these people into our society and help them improve their way of life. Remember what the French philosopher has said “FORBIDDING IS FORBIDDEN”. Did the French government try to understand how these woomen feel? Do they know that some of them do not really want to get dressed like that but they do it cause they are forced by their families? Ok, let’s say we ban the Burka in the public areas but what happens in their private places?

@Roy
“France don’t have the largest Muslim community in Europe. I think it’s Turkey”. Typically, Turkey is not in Europe.

@Frank Li
“deport those backward thinkers, but before you stated “it is about time that someone had the courage to make a progressive movement towards equality”. Nice progressiveness!!! Remember “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Voltair again. Would you cut your hand if it was sick?

@from utah, the shitholeon
“i believe the burka should not be banned. most western muslim women wear it because they choose to” Not really. As I said above, most of them are forced to wear that, otherwise, this is an offense to the invisible man.

@SGT. Dela
Christianity isn’t better than Islam. Every form of organized religion is the same. Islam might be more authoritarian, but the difference is not that huge. Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, African religions… imagine, they all live in a different apartment of the same block of flats. I don’t despise that there are Muslim fundamentalists in the West, but so far, what the U$ government does is to take over their land, butcher innocent people, stealing their sources. That’s the truth that the U$ Media don’t tell you. For more study “Noam Chomsky and the Media”
Check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo

@david
“The world has become a global village and we must learn to live together in peace and harmony”.
The world has become a huge corporate village. We can’t have peace as the world is divided in East and West. What are the difference between internationalism and globalization? The first serves the people, the second those with power, those who control the banking system and the media. They spread hatred and bigotry; they hypnotize us with nonsense ideas like patriotism, because without patriotism we have no wars thus the gun industry which is a very important source of incomes, would go bankrupt. It’s the tactic of divide and conquer.

Bottom line: The real problem is that people are forced to obey religious views. For centuries and centuries religion has been used as a tool to manipulate the masses, to scare us that if we resist the invisible man will punish us forever and ever with the worst way so we have to obey and become passive to everything they tell us if we want to “save our souls”. Even if you eradicate Islam, there will come another form of totalitarian religion, regime etc as long as there is PROFIT and monetarism. Even in Europe which supposed to be more civilized, in the isolated areas blind religiousness keeps well. What is they key? Education, information. Schools should not to teach the children to talk telepathically to imaginary friends but things which actually exist. Science, technology, these helped us a few thousand years ago to understand that thunder-lightnings are not caused by angry Gods who had a bad time and wanted to fight each other but it is the law of nature. Technology and solidarity moves things forward. Blind religiousness and separatism leads us back to the heart of darkness!

]]> By: from utah, the shithole http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-64095 from utah, the shithole Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:02:29 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-64095 i believe the burka should not be banned. most western muslim women wear it because they choose to. call me paranoid, but i think the real reason france banned burkas is because of surveillance. cameras cant spy on you if your face is covered, they wont know who it is theyre watching. france just used 'equality' as a false pretense.the government should never have a say in what you may or may not wear. thats an individual choice. the burka ban is also discriminatory against muslims. i believe the burka should not be banned. most western muslim women wear it because they choose to. call me paranoid, but i think the real reason france banned burkas is because of surveillance. cameras cant spy on you if your face is covered, they wont know who it is theyre watching. france just used ‘equality’ as a false pretense.the government should never have a say in what you may or may not wear. thats an individual choice. the burka ban is also discriminatory against muslims.

]]> By: Esmo http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-63820 Esmo Tue, 08 Jun 2010 22:21:12 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-63820 The bottom line is people should have the freedom to wear what they want. By trying to ban the burqa, the French government is infringing on that liberty. It's saddening, and slightly alarming that France of all places should be acting so authoritarian. The bottom line is people should have the freedom to wear what they want. By trying to ban the burqa, the French government is infringing on that liberty. It’s saddening, and slightly alarming that France of all places should be acting so authoritarian.

]]> By: DELA http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-63378 DELA Sat, 29 May 2010 08:19:28 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-63378 Then I think you need to re- read my posts because you obviously didn't take the time before. I am going to assume that you've been to a few countries in Europe which are much like you in culture, and differ mostly in the area of language. So honestly, how can a person who hasn't been around different people, lecture about respecting them? I'm currently in Vietnam, and the last three countries i've been to are South Africa, Dominican Rep, and Iraq. Do I need to say how far different they are from the US? BUT to claim I have traveled far more and actually interacted with many more types of people than you (though probably true) would be based on an assumption and meaningless. What this HAS shown is that I have a great appreciation for other cultures AND people. As far as Islam goes, I have formed my opinions not only on what I see on the news but also actually being in a Muslim country where a week where I only get a few shots fired at me, is a good week. I don't care for Islam, and I feel the mainstream is becoming more and more radicalized. If you want to just blame this on the US, Id check my history British boy. It was YOUR country that cut up the middle east into what it is today, drawing lines in the sand with little information about the people. Nations without countries like Kurdistan are common and because of this they are broken into Turkey and Iraq, both of which hate them and have killed thousands. Lets look at Israel (its a major issue to Muslims, regarding our support of Israel). YOUR country promised Israel to the Muslims (Palestinians), the Jews (Israelis), and to France and yourselves. Then after WW2 you gave it to the Jews and now wonder why the Palestinians are pissed off. Britain and your imperialist neighbors have been messing in the middle east long before the US. This anti-western sentiment isn't new, and not began by the US as much as you Neutral Europeans (minus Britain since you're the only European country that has any balls anymore) like to claim its the US's current policies, it was actually your own, specifically Britain, policies that began this radicalization of a religion that at its base is not much different from Christianity or Judaism. This might surprise you, but I own and have read much of the Quran so don't doubt my knowledge of this religion. Global village? Now you're really starting to sound like you've never left your island, because that the same type of sentiment that American liberals who have never been outside their comfy town claim. Then I think you need to re- read my posts because you obviously didn’t take the time before. I am going to assume that you’ve been to a few countries in Europe which are much like you in culture, and differ mostly in the area of language. So honestly, how can a person who hasn’t been around different people, lecture about respecting them?
I’m currently in Vietnam, and the last three countries i’ve been to are South Africa, Dominican Rep, and Iraq. Do I need to say how far different they are from the US?
BUT to claim I have traveled far more and actually interacted with many more types of people than you (though probably true) would be based on an assumption and meaningless.
What this HAS shown is that I have a great appreciation for other cultures AND people. As far as Islam goes, I have formed my opinions not only on what I see on the news but also actually being in a Muslim country where a week where I only get a few shots fired at me, is a good week.
I don’t care for Islam, and I feel the mainstream is becoming more and more radicalized. If you want to just blame this on the US, Id check my history British boy. It was YOUR country that cut up the middle east into what it is today, drawing lines in the sand with little information about the people. Nations without countries like Kurdistan are common and because of this they are broken into Turkey and Iraq, both of which hate them and have killed thousands.
Lets look at Israel (its a major issue to Muslims, regarding our support of Israel). YOUR country promised Israel to the Muslims (Palestinians), the Jews (Israelis), and to France and yourselves. Then after WW2 you gave it to the Jews and now wonder why the Palestinians are pissed off.
Britain and your imperialist neighbors have been messing in the middle east long before the US. This anti-western sentiment isn’t new, and not began by the US as much as you Neutral Europeans (minus Britain since you’re the only European country that has any balls anymore) like to claim its the US’s current policies, it was actually your own, specifically Britain, policies that began this radicalization of a religion that at its base is not much different from Christianity or Judaism.
This might surprise you, but I own and have read much of the Quran so don’t doubt my knowledge of this religion.
Global village? Now you’re really starting to sound like you’ve never left your island, because that the same type of sentiment that American liberals who have never been outside their comfy town claim.

]]> By: david http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-63287 david Thu, 27 May 2010 12:20:47 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-63287 Dear Dela It seems from your comments that you have deep hatered towards other religions and people, especially Islam. Quite honestly we could do without people like you. The world has become a global village and we must learn to live together in peace and harmony. Dear Dela

It seems from your comments that you have deep hatered towards other religions and people, especially Islam.

Quite honestly we could do without people like you.

The world has become a global village and we must learn to live together in peace and harmony.

]]> By: SGT. Dela http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-62951 SGT. Dela Sun, 23 May 2010 09:06:14 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-62951 As a religious person as well as a Conservative Republican American (also a combat vet USMC, if any of you Euro kids care to know) I find this hard to say but I fully support france in their policy. Islam is oppressive, violent, and seeks to take over Europe, not become part of its rich culture. I hope that the rest of Europe takes France's lead. As a religious person as well as a Conservative Republican American (also a combat vet USMC, if any of you Euro kids care to know) I find this hard to say but I fully support france in their policy. Islam is oppressive, violent, and seeks to take over Europe, not become part of its rich culture. I hope that the rest of Europe takes France’s lead.

]]> By: Alex http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-61887 Alex Tue, 04 May 2010 03:18:52 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-61887 The problem I think some people have with the burqa is that you never know if the woman is making that decision herself, or if she's brainwashed and forced to do so. There are a lot of extremist Muslims in Europe who go so far as to kill their sisters/wives for being "too Western." Of course there are women who honestly believe it, but there are others who are too afraid to "be Western" for fear of being ostracized by the Muslim community. Either way, people are going to get hurt. The problem I think some people have with the burqa is that you never know if the woman is making that decision herself, or if she’s brainwashed and forced to do so. There are a lot of extremist Muslims in Europe who go so far as to kill their sisters/wives for being “too Western.” Of course there are women who honestly believe it, but there are others who are too afraid to “be Western” for fear of being ostracized by the Muslim community.

Either way, people are going to get hurt.

]]> By: shah http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-61659 shah Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:59:03 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-61659 It was interesting to read the article as well as the comments. But the question here is, what is the motive for this current obsession with Burqa? Is it driven by the narrow political agenda of the french politicians who want to divert the attention of the masses away from the economic turmoil and other pressing problems? Or the politicians themselves have succumbed to Islamophobia? After all, burqa is the dress that is worn by a section of your population. It doesn't matter if that percentage of population is white french, immigrant french, Christians, Jews or Muslims. Since when the state has taken the liberty to interfere in fundamental individual rights that is so basic. Is it the state's duty to decide on what a person should eat, wear, study and work? Btw did the french elect their president to worry abt this and burqa? If the president is so worried about burqa and the difficulties that it poses for identification and integration into the society, then I seriously think that the president is wasting his time in office, and taking the masses for a ride to garner some popularity by harping on an issue that borders on racism and fascism. It does no good for french economy, french international image or most importantly the french values itelf which stand for Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. On the face of it, the president's act look so patriotic, but when you dig deeper its actually is detrimental to France Image, Interest and Values in the long run. Moreover, if the white french majority feels the muslim immigrants are not welcomed, then they should be ashamed of themselves for practicing blatant hypocrisy and double standards as well. If you can forcibly and illegally colonize other countries and territories by means of military might, violence and subversion for your own selfish gains in the past, then why can't this people from ex-colonies migrate to their former colonial masters land legally during the time of globalization and democracy.Please note that majority of the muslim french come from ex-french colonies. Having said this, ultimately the people need to be intelligently empowered, so that they dont be fooled into the trap played by the media and politicians for their own selfish gains. Lets work towards a free world that is truly free from racism, fascism, bigotry, hatred and war, so that our future generation can truly inherit a better world. It was interesting to read the article as well as the comments.

But the question here is, what is the motive for this current obsession with Burqa? Is it driven by the narrow political agenda of the french politicians who want to divert the attention of the masses away from the economic turmoil and other pressing problems? Or the politicians themselves have succumbed to Islamophobia?

After all, burqa is the dress that is worn by a section of your population. It doesn’t matter if that percentage of population is white french, immigrant french, Christians, Jews or Muslims.

Since when the state has taken the liberty to interfere in fundamental individual rights that is so basic. Is it the state’s duty to decide on what a person should eat, wear, study and work? Btw did the french elect their president to worry abt this and burqa?

If the president is so worried about burqa and the difficulties that it poses for identification and integration into the society, then I seriously think that the president is wasting his time in office, and taking the masses for a ride to garner some popularity by harping on an issue that borders on racism and fascism. It does no good for french economy, french international image or most importantly the french values itelf which stand for Liberty, Equality and Fraternity.

On the face of it, the president’s act look so patriotic, but when you dig deeper its actually is detrimental to France Image, Interest and Values in the long run.

Moreover, if the white french majority feels the muslim immigrants are not welcomed, then they should be ashamed of themselves for practicing blatant hypocrisy and double standards as well. If you can forcibly and illegally colonize other countries and territories by means of military might, violence and subversion for your own selfish gains in the past, then why can’t this people from ex-colonies migrate to their former colonial masters land legally during the time of globalization and democracy.Please note that majority of the muslim french come from ex-french colonies.

Having said this, ultimately the people need to be intelligently empowered, so that they dont be fooled into the trap played by the media and politicians for their own selfish gains.

Lets work towards a free world that is truly free from racism, fascism, bigotry, hatred and war, so that our future generation can truly inherit a better world.

]]> By: Joel http://www.abytheliberal.com/world-culture/sarkozys-burka-ban-for-equality-and-secularism#comment-61079 Joel Thu, 22 Apr 2010 01:18:49 +0000 http://www.abytheliberal.com/?p=384#comment-61079 I thought that Europeans were more open than Americans. I was under the impression that Europeans were tolerant of other nation's religions and beliefs. Now, it seems, that the urbane and diverse peoples of Europe will ban muslim (and other 'conspicuous') head dress because their ideology disagrees with wearing things that could be interpreted as a symbol of oppression? I thought that Europeans were more open than Americans. I was under the impression that Europeans were tolerant of other nation’s religions and beliefs. Now, it seems, that the urbane and diverse peoples of Europe will ban muslim (and other ‘conspicuous’) head dress because their ideology disagrees with wearing things that could be interpreted as a symbol of oppression?

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