India As An Economic Superpower
Dmitri July 12th, 2007
In the last few years the world has seen a decline in the influence of United States as a global superpower, particularly in Europe and East Asia. The developments after the collapse of Soviet Union and the Gulf War in 2001, led the world to a heightened state of paranoia against the perceived US imperialism, as shown by the race among nations to balance America’s super power status. Russia fell behind due to its economic problems, as the loss of major territories like Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan hit it hard. These factors along with the reorganisation of Europe as the European Union led the political analysts and commentators around the world to prophesise India, China and EU as the future superpowers.
India is quite often in the reports of global political analysts and media specialists [eg. Newsweek] as the next possible superpower on a global level. India has significant political influence in South Asia due to its its capabilities as an economic giant, a large country with a billion people, a military might and a rich cultural heritage spanning thousands of years into the past. Yet it takes much more than a regional power to become a global superpower. A nation needs to be a global military and economic might with political and cultural influence to be a superpower. Rather than getting worked up by impressive media commentaries it would be worthwhile to look into some hard facts and figures to see India’s position on the global economic scale.
The largest slum in Asia at the heart of India’s financial capital Mumbai; millions of poor in India live in such conditions.
After the liberalisation of its economy in 1991, followed with the opening up of its markets to global players, India went on a fast track economic boom with an 8-9% GDP growth per year. This was largely possible because of a vast population with a large middle class market, and a huge manpower of cheap skilled workers in the IT and service industry catering mainly to the corporate back offices of US and UK. Yet despite the rosy picture, the beneficiary of this economic growth remains a meagre 10% of India’s 1 billion population earning 33% of India’s national income [Source]. The purchasing power of Indians remains at a fraction of that of EU or USA, at an annual per capita GDP (PPP) of approximately US $3800 (2006). The large GDP that India boasts of, $1.2 trillion looks impressive on a global scale but diminishes when its huge population is taken into account. Over 79.9% of Indians live on less than a $2 a day; among them 34.7% live on less than a dollar a day, according to the data compiled by UN Human Development Report 2006.
In the area of education, the large pool of IT workers and technologists can’t overshadow the fact that India still remains one of the most illiterate countries in the developing world. With 39% of the population being unable to read and write, this represents about 400 million people - more than the total population of US, Australia and Canada put together. Sparing a few national universities of repute in the major urban areas, the majority of Indian universities and colleges fail to produce skilled professionals which could be employable in intellectually demanding fields like research, development and manufacturing. The quality of school education in the public sector remains woefully low due to lack of teachers, classrooms, books and basic educational amenities. The famed English speaking Indians are mainly limited to the private school educated economic elite which represents less than 5% of the of Indians, often termed as ‘middle class’.
With a over 37% of the population being illiterate and living under a dollar a day, India still remains an economically third world country; hardly a superpower or a global economic power. At the current trends it would take at least 30 years for India to have one third the purchasing power of the developed nations (provided that the current growth is sustained). By the time India catches up with the present living standards of developed nations, there will be too many players like Europe, Russia, China, Japan, Brazil and United States that the term ‘Superpower’ will become obsolete to be replaced by multiple ‘powers’.
- World Politics , Internationalism , Ideology , Economy
- Comments(55)
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I agree that India needs a lot of catching up to do on the economic well being front. However it has to ensure its security by having an edge over its relatively strong adversaries like Pakistan and China. The higher the goals, the more the effort, example can be seen in China which has achieved much militarily because it has superpowers like USSR and USA as adversaries.
India as a superpower is just a wet dream, be realistic with a population of 1.2B and over 1B poor it is day dreaming and there is no law against day dreaming…
@Mo - There are over 200 million in India who are ‘middle class’ out of an estimated 1129 million population, which means the situation is not as bad in India as it might sound. The concept of ‘poor’ is also relative, the UN might consider earning less than $2 a day a sign of poverty, but it might be fine in India where cost of living is much lower than the European or American standards. India is economically modest yes, really bad no. One has to look at the condition of sub-Saharan countries or look around the ghettos in US cities to understand what poverty is, India is much better off than that.
I complelty agree with Aby, The $2 is very luxury for most of the indians. The average cost of living per day in rural india is 54cents. In the urban area it is $1.4c, so you cannot judge India a poor nation by earning less than $2.
Tell me honestly, is it possible to lead a day to day life less than $1 dollar in europe & USA? Our cost of living is high compare to India. it means, we give more price than what the indian give to the same products.
India certainly is going to be an economic power.It will 3rd ranked economic power by 2020.
Nice article Aby. Thanks for your Neutral comments.
I also started one initiative to analyze situations in India on my blog IndiaInvestigaed.blogspot.com
hey largest slum in asia millions poor live there-sorry these comment is false it is a largest slum but not all poors live there for ur information indian government try to gave all of them new homes but dharavi’s people opposes it and fight government they want to live only in that asia biggest slum as there business there
hey india is 9th reachest in the world and a trillion dolor economy grothrate 9.4 in five yeras take over italy in 10years england i am not saying that world saying that
I’m Indian and I disagree with the problems you have highlighted in your post. See, there has to be a difference when a country has one of the largest populations in the world.
There is no doubt that India’s GDP is above a trillion dollars, which shows that money is flowing into the country. But since India’s population is so huge, the amount of money that flows into the country and is used for the people, gets diluted. That does not mean that the living standards in the country are not improving. A lot is being done for the poor, but the only difference is, that its taking too much time. And there is nothing that can be done about it, since the wealth has to be spread equally.
The middle class in India is improving. Also, the living standards of the poor have improved. A lot has been done to displace the slum dwellers to places more habitable. Bombay has plans about the slum dwellers, and houses are being built for the people outside Bombay. The same goes for New Delhi.
Therefore, with a population as large as this, I wouldn’t call it fair to expect changes in such a short time. Changes will surface only ten years down the line. Besides, the authorities in India have to face a lot of challenges while implementing their changes, owing to the cultural conservationism present among the people - especially poor.
@ Mo
I think you’re being too immature to have used words like that in your response. The analysis of India becoming a superpower within years from now is not a result of dreaming in the first place. The analysis was made by some of the world’s leading governing and other international bodies.
Moreover, India being one of the nations expected to become a superpower is depicted in the current shift in American policies towards India and Pakistan. The upcoming Indo - US nuclear deal is a fit example of how much America recognises India’s rising military and economic might.
Moreover, it is absolutely absurd to believe that 1 billion of India’s ‘1.2′ billion people are poor. It is an ill informed comment.
India being superpower is not something impossible but it will happen or not that we can see in time. At it’s current growth rate it will be one of the top 2 countries in the world by 2050 but it has to maintian a close to 2 digit growth rate for next 40 years or so. Since india already maintaining a close to 2 digit growth rate in gdp for last 4 years or so we can see it is going the right way. But going the right way and reaching the goal are way different. Indian economy already showing signs of over heating. it is going faster than it actually can go. It need to improve it’s infrastructure badly to reduce the over heating. It also has a huge crisis of energy that causes the over heating. I hope india will be benifited with the new nuclear deal and can meet up most of it’s energy demands. If these problems can be solved I see no other reason which will stop it’s high rate of growth. if the competency of the indian politicians is anywhere close to their data processors then I am pretty sure they will sustain this growth rate and reach the top within the middle of the century.
@Aby
“” There are over 200 million in India who are ‘middle class’ out of an estimated 1129 million population, which means the situation is not as bad in India as it might sound.”"
—————————————
Mr.Aby do you want to know where India stands these days regarding hunger, poverty, starvation, women abusing bla bla and bla……..etc…, you should listen to Nobel Laureate, an eminent welfare economist and author of The Argumentative Indian Amartya Sen, according to him,” India had buffer stocks exceeding 60 million tonnes and beside that somewhere between 220-300 million people went to bed on an empty stomach, every night”
——————————————-
–ASIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION asking for aid to serve the hunger people, because people in Indian these days dying of Hunger…www.ahrchk.net/pub/mainfile.php/endangered_humanity/233/
——————————————-
According to Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in India a third of 1.1 billion people live on less than $1 a day, according to the World Bank.
http://southasia.oneworld.net/article/view/133388/1/2245
while the World Bank estimates more than half of India’s 1.1 billion people still live on less than $1 a day.
—-www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601013&refer=emergingmarkets&sid=arva33znhDMs
———————————————-
HUNGER ALERT (India): Children dying of starvation
—-www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2006/1884/
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Dear Aby, its not my intension to criticize your post but as its a neutral forum and everyone has the right to present his views etc…However, I do believe in fair discussion and I always believe in established facts and figures not on predictions or assumptions. I request you to correct your figures….
INDIA
1.26% of population living under poverty…..if india continue to grow at present rate it will be a developed nation by 2020..Dr. apj abdul Kalam.
2.literacy hovers around 68%….growing at the rate of 3.9% per year.
3.india’s per capita is $3,700–will atleast be 410000 by 2020 at the rate 3% less than the present one of 9.2%.
4.Asia largest slum at dharavi,mumbai–Rs.40 billion rehabillatation process began on jan,2007 and the slum will disappear by yr 2010.
5.Indian people are black…its in fashion dude!
6.Indian people are hungry….river interlinking project will multiply grain production by 10.
its a humble message to my pakis bros that its a mere fulishness to fite with eachother. western nation are so much developed,they make fun of our kiddish fitin,they say pakis are very dangerous and indians are thieves.let us join our hands and show everyone that two brother seperated are now one again.we are fitin like two bros for land given by there ancestors.we should take pride in each oter’s culture,Mughals and Mauryas,Indus and Ganges,Karachi and Mumbai,you and we….!
i see one critical fault often prevalent in western understanding of india. India has a huge population so less per capita …yeah that does not mean lesser revenue for the central governing body……… boom boom shakalaka…
savy..
Size of economy matters…india is not as bad as its per capita (real terms) makes it look like. And i am not going to PPP*..cause India still purchases mush of its military technology from the global market so real terms makes sense there..however in other strategic domains for instance space exploration and remote sensing india has a substantial indigenous development so PPP comes into play….in PPP terms check india’s rank its pretty good i should say…like 3 rd largest huh…
Superpower not yet…when will we make it ??? provided we get into NSG (nuclear suppliers group)’s good books and russia gives us some pipe lines…in a decade..
When will we eradicate poverty?? oh come oooonnn its easy to ask questions…
And one more thing can the paki’s please shut up…ooops had to do that indians never miss a chance to have a go at our neighbors…all harmless sibling rivalry..
*ppp - purchase power parity
@Bilal Afridi
Mind blowing Mr.Bilal great assessment regarding Indian economy……….I love it…Eye opening facts for Indians…
Bilal Bhai…I read your posts in Pak-India military balance which were full of facts and figures, however,I would love to see some more from you on Indian economy.
Zeeshan Junaid
Karachi,Pakistan
India is a powerhouse and will be the golden bird again. Indian companies are on the hunt of taking over the western countries. The growth rate of India shocks the world when they predicted that 33% of India’s population would die by the 70s? People don’t understand that India is the land of gods and the cycle is coming back to its postive and shinning side of the “GOLDEN BIRD”
Pakistan has a history of hearing only what it wants to hear, maintaining the delusion that it is India’s equal. Mushraaf lost in this election because the poverty has spread from the villages of pakistan to the cities. There is no food to eat, no power to run the factories, no clean water to drink and no guarantee that you will make it back alive, if you go out!! No wonder these pakistanis are jealous of india. Even imrankhan has praised india!!
@Rocker 2009
Kid you didn’t find a girl yet? Read my 05 Oct 2007 at 10:01 pm post, I’m sure would be enough to open your eyes.
” India Corrupt No.1″(”Transparency International’s Bribe Payer’s Index 2006 brands India the most corrupt nation in the world. India now becomes the most corrupt exporting nation in the world too.”)
” India 5th most corrupt Asian economy”
” India among 55 most corrupt countries”(India ranks 90 in the list of 106 countries)”
“Indian businesses are rated as the most corrupt in the world for bribery, according to a new report by Transparency International”
“India, with a score of 8.90, and Indonesia, which got a grade of 9.25, rounded up the worst performers”
Kid, its not my intension to critisize your country,however you should keep in mind that if Pakistan is a poor country ,India is the poorest and most corrupt…Bear in mind…
Source:-
—–singapore-window.org/sw04/040304a1.htm
——thehindubusinessline.com/bline/2006/10/09/stories/2006100900640800.htm
——-littleindia.com/news/128/ARTICLE/1374/2006-11-12.html
——–expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=82891
—–hinduonnet.com/2004/10/21/stories/2004102108861100.htm
Bilal , you should be careful about what you say.Such comments can easily fire up Indians and would provide inspiration to grow at 10% a year.Before criticising other countrie ,examine the state of yours.Your CPI is 2.4 - below India’s(www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html).India is already a force to reckon with even though it is a “Very corrupt country”,if it were’nt so corrupt ,It would far more advanced.I bet you don’t want India to become a superpower ,then why do you have to help India to improve itself by providing all kinds of Known statistics.
i seriously think people from across the border should stop and think for a moment before
posting in this blog. We are having a discussion hear on india being a superpower or marching towards being one. We all ofcourse know what state pakistan is in. It is in pakistans destiny that it has to end up being one of india’s provinces once again thats where it belongs cause the people there are incapable of governing themselves. No issues india wont kick them out but accept them as its own.
@ To My Indian Friends
My dear Indians, I don’t know why you Indians consider yourselves himen.Some says, O’biggest democracy, other says third biggest economy, and so on etc…I am fadeup ofyour big proudy claims.However, if you guys don’t mind, today I have decided to show you what India is in reality.
Do you know India is on the brink of a failed State?
A-Lets start from Poverty
The prosperity of every country is linked to its people, living of people, their shelter their livelyhood etc.It’s unfortunate to say that India is one among those countries which shelters more than 400 million who’s living under poverty elevation.
According to Amartya Sen a Nobel Laureate, an eminent welfare economist and the author of “The Argumentative Indian””
“Somewhere between 220-300 million people went to bed on an empty stomach, every night”
—-rediff.com/money/2007/apr/26amartya.htm
—-moneycontrol.com/india/news/politics/hunger-isquiet-violence-amartya-sen/176023
“ASIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION asking for aid to serve the hunger people, because people in Indian these days dying of Hunger”
—- ahrchk.net/pub/mainfile.php/endangered_humanity/233/
According to the assessment of World Bank “ more than half of India’s 1.1 billion people still live on less than $1 a day”
—-bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601013&refer=emergingmarkets&sid=arva33znhDMs
However, your economist Prime Minister Manmohan Singh claim is very much optimistic, he claimed, in India a third of 1.1 billion people live on less than $1 a day. What Manmohan singh wanted to say is 40% of Indian population earns less than 40 rupess.I leave you to decide who’s right?
—-southasia.oneworld.net/article/view/133388/1/2245
“HUNGER ALERT (India): Children dying of starvation”
—-ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2006/1884/
“Dying of Hunger in a land of surplus”
“found grass. And so for most of the summer, the village’s 60 households got by eating sama - a fodder normally given to cattle”
—-guardian.co.uk/GWeekly/Story/0,3939,843366,00.html
“18 Musahar families are dying of starvation”
—-worldproutassembly.org/archives/2007/04/hunger_alert_in.html
“How poor is India? Some startling statistics have just been released by a forgotten wing of Dr Singh’s own administration, the National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector. Around 80 per cent of India’s working population is in this sector. Nearly 80 per cent of this group earns less than 20 rupees a day and 85 per cent of this sub group is trapped in debt. By that usual sleight of hand we have drawn an arbitrary line to define poverty: Rs 12 a day constitutes the poverty line. This encourages the illusion that 77 per cent of India is now above the poverty line. It isn’t that much above in any case. Nor is this poverty line index-linked to inflation. Twelve rupees a day buys much less today than it did three years ago. The traditional poverty groups remain where they were: 88 per cent of Scheduled Tribes and Castes, 80 per cent of “Other Backward Classes” and 85 per cent of Muslims belong to the “poor and vulnerable” class.”
M. J. Akbar is Editor-in-Chief of the Asian Age and Deccan Chronicle newspapers. He can be reached at mjakbar@asianage.com,
—-khaleejtimes.com/ColumnistHomeNew.asp?section=mjakbar&col=yes
B-Asia’s most corrupt nation
For more details read my on 21 Feb 2008 at 7:41 am post.
C-Persecution of its minorities on the name of Religion
For details see my on 23 Feb 2008 at 3:24 pm post in —- abytheliberal.com/military/india-pakistan-military-strength
—-indianterrorism.bravepages.com/gujarat%20pictures%202.htm
D-White Widows: 40-50, million women ostracized from society and incarcerated in temples. These widows are sold as prostitutes to earn their keep quite oftenly. They are not allowed to touch any normal being and their shadow is considered a bad omen.
—- widowsofvrindavan.blogspot.com/
—-news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1795564.stm
—-kalgidharsociety.org/cause/cause.asp
E-Dalits Eek out a Sub Human Living in India
Between 150 to 250 million Dalits or Untouchables live in utter sub-human conditions. A population as large as the United States lives in conditions that are below and worse off than that of Sub Saharan Africa. The dalit websites shed some light on the plight of the Dalits.
“In the Indian caste system, a Dalit, often called an untouchable, or an outcaste, is a person who according to traditional Hindu belief does not have any “varnas“. Varna refers to the Hindu belief that most humans were supposedly created from different parts of the body of the divinity Purusha. The part from which a varna was supposedly created defines a person’s social status with regard to issues such as whom they may marry and which professions they may holdDalits fall outside the varnas system and have historically been prevented from doing any but the most menial jobs. (However, a distinction must be made between lower-caste people and Pariahs.) Included are leather-workers (called chamar), carcass handlers (called mahar),poor farmers and landless laborers, night soil scavengers (called bhangior chura), street handicrafters, folk artists, street cleaners, dhobi, etc. Traditionally, they were treated as pariahs in South Asiansociety and isolated in their own communities, to the point that even their shadows were avoided by the upper castes. Discrimination against Dalits still exists in rural areas in the private sphere, in ritual matters such as access to eating places and water sources. It has largely disappeared, however, in urban areas and in the public sphere, in rights of movement and access to schools The earliest rejection of discrimination, at least in spiritual matters, was made as far back as the Bhagavada Gita, which says that no person, no matter what, is barred from enlightenment. Even early Indian texts such as the Rig Veda discourage the abuse of outcastes. The text reads, “Indra, you lifted up the outcast who was oppressed, you have glorified the blind and the lame.” (Rg-Veda 2:13:12There are an estimated 160 million Dalits in India.”
—-en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_caste_system
F- Muslims
There are more than 150 million Muslim citizens living in India as third rate citizens.
” Muslims constitute 25.2 per cent of the population of West Bengal, but have only 2.1 per cent of state government jobs. Kerala, which has almost the same percentage of Muslims (24.7 per cent), has given 10.4 per cent of state government jobs to the community. Assam’s ratio is similar: 30.9 per cent and 11.2 per cent. Bihar does better: it gives 7.6 per cent of state jobs to Muslims, who add up to 16.5 per cent of the population. Andhra Pradesh has the best record: 9.2 per cent of the population and 8.8 per cent of jobs. Uttar Pradesh, despite leaders who claim to be more-secular-than-thou has given only 5.1 per cent of state government jobs to an 18.5 per cent population. The situation is no better when it comes to health and education indices.”
E- Freedom movements in India
1-Kashmir
Don’t want to discuss it in details, we know,world knows what Indian army is doing in Kashmir.More than 100,000 people have been massacred and more than that nos are missing and displaced by India authorities.
—-kmsnews.org/databank/Freedom%20Struggle/kms%20articles/new/History%20demands%20Kashmir’s%20early%20resolution%202007.htm
—-kashmir.wordpress.com/2007/02/13/the-largest-daemon-cracy/
—- amnesty.org/
2- Punjab
Sikhs Khalistan movement for liberation of eastern Punjab.What Indian army done to the innocents of Golden temple, world had witnessed that event.According to general accepted figures more than 5000 Sikhs were perished during the bluestar operation.However,freedom struggle is still going on…See
—- roadtokhalistan.blogspot.com/
3-Tamil Nadu and Mizuram are in flames seeking independence
—- geocities.com/tamiltribune/98/0902.html
—- geocities.com/tamiltribune/98/0701.html
—- www.rediff.com/news/2000/oct/09tamil.htm
—- satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/tripura/terrorist_outfits/attf.htm
—- tamilnation.org/conflictresolution/countrystudies/nagaland/030221taraki.htm
4-Tamil insurrection in Sri Lanka led by Tamils Terrorists in India
5-Bihar: Major suppression of Biharis and problems with Bangladesh
6-West Bengal in Communist hands fueling Naxalites.
7-Muslim genocide in Gujrat
World witnessed the killing of more than 5000 Muslims in Gujrat by fanatic hindu terrorists linked to chief minister of Gujrat Nirander Moodi.In Gujrat riots more than 3000 were burnt alive by Hindu fanatics.” Indian officials and police were directly involved in killing hundreds of Muslims during violent riots in the western Indian state of Gujarat over the past two months, the U.S. group Human Rights Watch said in a report”
—-findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WDQ/is_2002_May_6/ai_85519980
—- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence
—- goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-1642914_ITM
—-youtube.com/watch?v=cbaoYlxK340 (Must see this video)
—- thenation.com/doc/20020930/baldwin20020916 (Must visit this link what was done to Muslim girls during riots by Hindu terrorists)
Conclusion:-India is a failed state for failing to provide food shelter and clothing,security to her citizens.while on another hand freedom struggle in nine provinces are on full scale which will certainly take place and soon world will see a different India by will of God.
Indian government can not hide truth from his citizens that India is in fact a failed state.
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.(Socrates)
@ Dear Bilal
Very Nice………….
@ Mel
Grow up Kid…………………
Haha hahaha … India on the brink of Failed state !!!! Mr. Bilal you are so insane !! Its pakistan which is in the Brink of Failed state .. OOps sorry i said something wrong here .. I say Pakistan is already a Failed state …. hahahaha …. The poorest of the poor indians also eat good food … All these figures that you have given depends upon Bank Balances which big people draft Graphs out of !!
Just check at the growth rate of Indian GDP!!! … Do you have any idea of the amount of exports india does yearly ? common baby show me the facts as you are very good in copy and paste job!!!
Now show me the facts of Indias Industries , exports(you will cry now) , inflation rates (compared to pakistans) … common you can do it !! I hope you know how to search good things about india… do it once !! And you will be ashmed of yourself….
About the poor people !!! Check the facts of UK and US poor people!! or any other developed country
Every country has its own pros and cons !!!! so just don’t say on the brink of failed state !!! .. india has seen poor people from hundreds of years !! Nothing has happenned to india otherthan improvement!!!
I do not wish my country to be a bullying super power. Even if we eventually become a ’super power’ , that day is atleast 40-50 years away.
I must say some of the comments from pak nationals are retarded to say the least. India has a lot of problems within, but nothing in the scale of pakistan. Pakistan is a very dangerous nation with restless hateful populace making a higher percentage than the moderate ones. Very dangerous reality for west and india. What is perplexing is that
not only are they hateful but also delusional, how else can you explain such a sense of bravado and esteem after the failure that pakistan is in every known sphere of human development.
@Mel
I don’t want to call you people with cheap mentallity or detest,retarded/abhorent, because Indian government has taught you “ALL THINGS ARE OKEY” and same is the method of India media…”INDIA IS SHINING”…However,what an ordinary person can’t see or judge is the reality which Indian government has intensionally kept its citizens in darkness, what I posted above was a fact which was totally allien for ordinary Indian kinsmen.I’m saying this because I have seen things with my open eyes during my visit of Bombay and Delhi.
Aswell as Pakistan is concern, on all forums I never said/claimed that Pakistan is an another Switzerland but a developing nation, however the way you Indians present Pakistan its totally against the reality and prejudice.Thats why I always request to Indians that for God sake stick to the topic and don’t haggle around. There is nothing in pulling each other legs, but everytime your kinsmen cross the limits and became so aggressive and abusive against our mother Land-Pak-land for nothing,and if they keep doing this,I’m afraid Pak-Land bears such souls ,whom can rebuttle.
I would apologize If my above said comments have hurted you.
Sincerely Yours
Bilal,
You are moderate. Please look around more you will bump into a lot of your country men who fall the earlier category. And you might be interested to know, india has many independent media channels none oppressed by the state, there is no propaganda hear the population is well aware of the situation prevalent in the country. You might get to see such institutions after a civil elected govt comes to power in pak. I must admit that it pretty refreshing to read a little vindictive yet rationale comment from the other side of the border.
Mr Bilal , before criticizing India , please look into your own state and do not forget what India has done already for Pakistan.
During the quake of 2005, India was the one who sent you relief within 5 hours, and much more help than any other country , including USA had provided.
I agree that India is one of the most corrupt countries, but even then our one minister , P. Chidambaram has made us second only to China in terms of economic growth, with current GDP being 9.33.
India has always offered Pakistan a hand of friendship, but what can we do if they do not accept it.
There would have been peace b/w the 2 nations only if Benazir Bhutto had been reinstated as the President of Pakistan.
India never wished for war, hatred , and always wanted cordial relations with all nations, so by your a ‘bit harsh’ comment, please do not ignite fire in the hearts of us Indians against Pakistan, and i would still love it if India and Pakistan could be one nation again.
@BILAL
Mr. bilal i dont think u did anything wrong by putting up some facts…
May be some of them are right but of course not all of them are…but surely this will help us to perform even better and i bet you this.
thank you for telling us what we are and what not.
now i want to ask you a question
1.Why do you think India cant be a economic superpower?
2.Do you think Pakistan can ever reach where India has?
Atleast INDIA has made others to talk about it as a economic superpower…
but i would like to ask you have you ever seen a forum or article saying….
PAKISTAN AS AN ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER.
I think you have never heard this line, this itself explains a lot.
@ Bilal
You remind me of those Christian evangelists who talk a bunch of crap. Sure, some of what you say is factual, of which most is yet blown out of proportion in a gross attempt to justify your claims. Of course, in your case, what would be a better term? Islamic cleric? Yes, probably so, since the term “Islamic fundamentalist” is far too broad, and often misused. India is not a failed state. Failed states do not become major economic powerhouses. They do have maintain one of the most disciplined armed forces of this world, though on this account, Pakistani special operations forces are on par with their Indian counterparts. The conventional forces of Pakistan are UHL—that is, Under Hopeless Level. This list is not exclusive and I hope you figured as much. This has been made obvious in the numerous wars that have already been fought over the years. Of course, we can get uptight on national sentiments, but I’d be ashamed to cite statistical data if I were a Pakistani too; and national sentiments serve no purpose in an academic debate because they tend to deviate from facts. There are numerous problems in India—I don’t deny that—but by comparison, the problems that Pakistan faces are unbelievably worse. I’m going to let you—and perhaps other readers as well—ponder on it before commenting.
Thanks Dmitri, for giving over view of indian economic growth. We have been witnessing this growth for last 18-20 years. A lot has changed in Indian since 1990. Per capita income, living standard and social structure.
1. India’s literacy rate was 65.5 % officially in 2000, which is expected to reach 77-79 % by 2011 & 90%+ by 2020.
There are atleast 12 states out of 28 which are already having literacy more then 74 % currently.
1 Mizoram 91.1
2 Kerala 89.9
3 Goa 83.3
4 Himachal Pradesh 81.3
5 Tripura 80.2
6 Maharashtra 77.6
7 Sikkim 76.6
8 Manipur 76.5
9 Assam 76.3
10 Uttaranchal 75.7
11 Tamil Nadu 74.2
12 Punjab 74
Still india has to do alot to improve its literacy.
2. Total 23-24 % people are living below poverty line, which is expected to reach 19-20 % in 2011 and 9-10 % in 2020 (which is being envisaged by many indians and that will be a great leap to eradicate poverty).
it was 36% in 1993-1994, 26.1% in 1999-2000.
3. India is such a diverse nation of race, language, culture & religion which is second most diverse land on earth after africa, India sustained this diversity and progressed alot. Still we are united as a nation, there was not a single instace of military coup or social unrest like our neighbour.
4. 5-8 % scientist working in NASA are indians and countless IT professionals. Almost 60,000 Indian physicians practice in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia—a workforce equal to 10 percent of the physicians in India and the largest émigré physician workforce in the world.
5. We have a systematic democratic process of selecting our leaders, altough sometimes it causes some problem in getting pace with progress but democracy has deep roots in india.
This creates an environment of peace and properity.
6. There are several indian cos working very well and earning lot of money and respect for country. In IT and software area there are many indian companies who are competing with world’s best. An Indian company has recently acquired giants like Jaguar and Land Rover of UK. India has become the back office of most of the Europe and USA.
(There are 4 indians in Forbes list of billionaires, this actually doesnt project the whole picture but shows the strength of nation on economic front).
7. India has been doing great on economic growth front which is now more then US $1 trillion (2008), witnessing more than 8 % of growth for last 10 years.
I can see lot of potential here and forsee india doing very good on economic front by 2020.
I’m living in India and if I’ll get a chance I’ll choose India as my country without a second thought. Don’t know about these facts and figures but I am living in Chandigarh (Punjab) and I am from a middle class family. I’m pursuing my engineering in computer science and education from RAYAT institute Railmajra, Punjab and so are most of my friends (different streams). I am typing this from a dell XPS M1330 laptop which I am using on a wifi network@1 MB/sec speed (shared with my sisters PC). I’m using nokia E 51 as my cell with GSM and use only wifi from college(they have 8 MB line
) or home. GPRS and other technologies here are a bit expensive if you go for unlimited plan. As far as i know, I’m yet to see any of those “hungry” people. You really think those “living under $1″ would sleep empty stomach if they can “eat till they explode” for 30 cents a time? Maybe that’ll shed some light of the life of middle class man in India.
I do agree with that at present India is the emerging nation of the world.
With 8-9% of GDP growth per year India is expected to be inthe list of developed nations by 2050.The rising income of the middle class, rising consumerism , economic boom have led to the wide opportunities for the expansion of the domestic market.But recently the oil crisis problem has some what affected the economy by raising the inflation rate moving around 11- 12%.the poorer sections are hard hit by it. This has ultimately resulted in slowing down the GDP growth which at presnt is 7%. But RBI has been taking several counter measures to tackle the problem of inflation.It is expected that by the end of 11th plan Inflation will be stabilised around 5 to 6%.
As a positive sign the index of Stock market has also been risen.the economic reforms will be more acclerated in the coming few years due to political stabilty and growing market.The industial sector and the service sector are rising at a double digit growth.The percentage of poverty has been considerably reduced and the 11th plan has targeted it bring down to the level of 9-10% by 2020 by taking some appropriate strategies.If the growth of GDP will be at two digit and that growth will be contributed by the simultaneous growth of agriculture, Industry and service sector while taking careof the poor er sections, then definitely India would be one of the leading nation in future.
Why indian economy will overtake chinese economy by 2020 to 2025?
India’s GDP (nominal) was only 700 billion dollars in 2005, but in about 3 yrs the GDP doubled to 1.33 trillion dollars (as of sept 2008) due to sustained growth rate of 8 to 9.5% for 3 to 4 yrs
India’s GDP (nominal) as of sep2008 is 1.33 trillion dollars (10 largest economy) and GDP (PPP) is 5.41 trillion dollars (3rd largest economy).
china opened its economy in 1979, while india in 1991. But still india will overtake chinese economy in 10 to 15 yrs.
1. China’s economy is a physical labour economy with no focus on entrepreneurship , innovation and rural education
2. Even though india attracts less Foreign direct investments than china, india’s growth rate is only 1 to 2% less than china’s growth rate. It is because china’s growth is due to massive accumulation of resources, while india’s growth is due to increasing efficiency.
a. India’s entrepreneurs are on war footing to acquire foreign businesses. Eg Take over of Land Rover and Jaguar by TATA and arcelor by Mittal steel (he is an indian even though based in the UK). Just shows the mindset of indians and the chinese.
b. china’s automobile industry is a disaster, but india is able to make cheap and efficient cars for its own citizens and people abroad. TATA nano.
3. China’s 70% banks are bankrupt due to unused loans. Stock market is a disaster.
4. China buys US debts so that the US dollar does not go down and chinese workers don’t go home without work. It will not help china’s crumbling financial sector.
5. India on the other hand encourages home grown businesses, at the same time FDIs in high tech areas are soaring high. India also invests heavily on rural education who can take the economy to a new level
6. Made in china does not mean made by china. All its major products are from Foreign direct investment companies in china, except common consumer goods like T shirts and other marketable goods.
I may be wrong but I’ve heard China provides better education in rural areas than India does. My Indian friends tell me there are a lot of problems with rural public education, particularly a lack of teachers. Social scientists who study the development of countries since the industrial revolution (mostly countries on the fringes of Europe that until then had been agricultural) say it normally takes about two generations of education to franchise citizens and entrench the state - in other words, to go from developing to developed. If China has a better rural education system then it might stay ahead of India for the immediate future, depending on the proportion of rural people in each country.
nothing against india
but as a chinese I would say your nation cares more about the riches and better-off than those of the poors despite of your demoncratic title.
The hard simple truce is that in china there is no caste system and our average education year is over 8.5 years, that is to say, most working people in china at least have a middle school degree, and the majority of the young people have a high school degree.
Albeit your college maybe better than us, and your IT field is more advanced, but you can easily see china by focusing on the mass education and social reform provide a more free and competive society to further the industial revolution.
But in india, only a small portion of people benefit from your information progress.
And keep in mind, chinese are more free than india not because our political freedom but because our social freedom, especially in rural area.
Sometimes, old culture and believe is a more terrible chain than the law in a police state.
It is unfortunate that the caste system divides the people in India even today but
the situation is not the same as it was 10/20 years back. Some dirty politicians
play with the sentiments of our people to retain their vote share. The system can’t
be changed overnight as it is practised over thousands of years. But nothing like
suppresion of a particular caste/religion is happening in India today. Indians are
socially/politically free than any other country in this world and much much better
than Chinese in this regard.
can you prove indian is more socially free than chinese?
I can at least say in china, there is only three rular to measure your social status
first your wallet—as many other nations
second your academic level—-that the east asia tradition
third your political power–as many other nations
There is No concerns about your skin color, blood and birth place.
And if you re reasonable enough, you can see that all three status can be changed or acquired by your hard working and talent.
However, as far as I konw, india there is a ralatively clear line of skin color when you examine the wealth of the population. And as far as one india commentator told me, indian, especially in rural area, would take caste as a vital factor in marriage and communication. And there are countless evidence indicat that both religious confliction and sexual & caste discrimination are still very rampt in the rural area.
I take it for granted that you are a city dweller so you can see indian city is relatively free of all this curses. However,do you realize the bulk of india is consisted of famers and if they are not socially free how can you claim indian is freer than chinese.
You know why most chinese still love Mao, despite his culture revolution, despite of the great starvation. The reason is simple , because he disentangle the our old culture and social classes by an unmerciful iron hand. So from his time all the poor chinese farmer can hold up their head and bow to no one simply for the sake of social status. And from his time, the compulsory basic education system give every poor famer child a chance to level himslef to the height of his city contemporary. Now as I state before, the 9 year education in china is free and covers over 92% of the youth, therefore our citizen’s average education year is more than 8.5 years. And because we build roads and factories, those untalented youth can still have a route to raise their social status by hard working.
consider the illiteracy rate in indian, Do you really believe a poor indian farmer child have the same opportunity enjoyed by a poor chinese farmer child ?
Do you really believe a indian farmer can find a better job than their chinsese collegues?
Do you really believe a lower class indian is more socially free than a chinese( we do not have caste so I don know whom to compare?)
And mind you the both india and china has sexual discrimination in rural area, but because of Culture revolution, the chinese women’s social status in rural area witness a significant rise. Therefore, you can see why the women literacy rate and women work rate is much higher in china.
@ ever4244
I didn’t respond to your education-related post about India because I mostly agreed to you. Then you took a turn for the absurd. Tell me, which internet sites are the Chinese allowed to surf, because in India, there aren’t a lot of restrictions and I’ll clarify: in China, most sites are restricted or screened; in India, a few harmful sites are restricted or screened. This is one of many examples. I agree with G.Vinod that the caste system is too thoroughly ingrained to be removed in a very short period of time, though that’s not for any lack of effort. I am a village boy; many villages are progressive, contrary to popular belief. This has nothing to do with social freedoms. You mention Mao; the fact that he’s still liked is an emotional appeal issue, not a practical one.
You can’t look at the past and not criticize it; the past will never be as good as present. But you ought to realize that China has progressed in (a) space exploration; (b) economy; (c) nuclear proliferation; (d) I can’t think of anything else.
Now, for faulty comparisons: do you think a Chinese farmer can compete with a U.S. farmer? Under EVERY scenario, the American would outdo the Chinese. Although the Chinese do not a caste system, they have one child rule (for reasons I understand, but still is ethically wrong), they have a dictatorship. I want to bring up the idea of autonomy. India has a lot of autonomy; China has few to none. This explains why more Chinese emigrate, as opposed to Indians, though the numbers on both ends is staggering.
The Government of India has instructed all Nationalized Banks to provide
educational loans for the deserving candidates. So if a farmer’s son/daughter
completes his/her higher studies with high scores then he/she is eligible
to get the necessary fee amount from the bank by way of loan for the college.
Iam from a village and many of my relatives are farmers, who have given
good education for their children and many of them are now working in Multi
National Companies. Not many chinese know that though the caste system
still prevails in India, many inter-caste marriages are also taking place all over
and it is also recognized by the families. The Government of India has strict laws
which punishes those who discriminate others on the basis of caste system.
I regret that in India there is no law for compulsary education but the
Government is planning to have such laws in the future. I would again state
here that India is much much free than China in many ways.
I think you guys comparing social freedom between India and China are comparing apples to oranges. Historically the system in India was vertical and in China it was horizontal and that is still true today. You’ve both got different priorities, like the comments in this thread show. To degree so does Canada versus the US. In Canada we are willing to go for less vertical opportunity in exchange for more horizontal security. Recently that has worked out pretty well for Canadian banks.
There aren’t many fields of development where China stands far behind India, we are not talking of political ideals here but actual national development. A real comparison between China’s and India’s infrastructure and quality of living makes the difference quite obvious. No offence meant to Indians, but when you scratch below the surface, the real India greatly resembles an impoverished African nation.
It does not explain anything. The idea that people emigrate for political ideals like autonomy and democracy is fantastic and typically American. Most people in India or China, who immigrate to other countries don’t do it for political ideals but for personal economic goals (i.e. money). Your claim that more Chinese emigrate as compared to Indians is once again, false or inaccurate. Try bringing up the numbers for instance, to back up your argument. You’d find Indians outnumber Chinese emigration in almost every country they emigrate to and more. Shall we follow you line of reasoning and blame it on democracy?
Another difference between CCP china and democratic india is this: if caste system ever exists in the scope of the MAO, he would use massive education(brain washing, movement and bullet if necessary to eliminate it in one or two decades and his successor Deng would use economical influence to concrete such culture destructions.
India, because the interwined interests group behind the caste system, your weak government can only use economical means to slowly melting down it. this procedure may took 7-8 decades to take effect. However, the caste system on the other hand would significantly draging down your economical progress and the procedure may took even longer.
That may be the different mind sets of Indian and Chinese. Although I completely appreciate your tolarance and patients but for me it is a crime such system and belief is elongated one more day.
Because man has only 80 years of life and if the old discrimination and obstacle wasn t removed in china 40 years ago, my father would not have the slightest chance to marry my mother and became a professer in University.
Therefore, If shoot a few hundred and ‘brain wash” a few thousand would eliminate the caste, I would not oppose if I were indian.( maybe too chinese style)
All in all, god bless both india and china
@ever4244
i agree with you that each type of government has its own advantages and disadvantages.
another point i want to make is that though caste system is prevalent in india ,still there is no way caste system will ever end It is a way of giving identity to people it is like giving surnames to people in india.the main thing that has to be changed is the wrong ethics related to it and believe me the scenario is changing pretty fast discrimination based on caste are less seen in these days ,even if they are seen these are mostly cases of far off villages where no media reaches. Media and press raise matters within hours and government has to response even if they don’t want to.i am a student myself many of my are the people who were earlier called Untouchables,but i bet they would never have had any such experiences and i m not living in a major city.
So, wrong ethics with caste system have already been remove upto 65-70% i reckon.All the cases which come today are basically from places who come from far off places with no link to media etc.
another example of scenario changing is that our chief justice is himself a SC i.e scheduled caste.
Communist government has its advantages in some place but democratic government has advantage in long run,even you would agree on that i think.
………
all comments are welcomed
The internet is not limited to political freedom only; it is a tool, as such many other forms of freedom apply and are equally valid. I think what Internationalist is trying to say is that your grasp of China is as strong as your grasp of India is weak. Ultimately, what you are describing is a choice of priorities. Ultimately, the issue of comparison is moot. China has its strengths; India has its. The two do not necessarily intertwine, but they certainly do not run parallel. The caste system in India is no more different than your industrialization issue; you need to prioritize and take one thing at a time. An unstable government in the era of industrialization will send the economy into a downward spiral. Attempting to eradicate the caste system right now could lead to massive civil unrest. An issue with capitalism, as unfortunate as this is, is that there exists a hierarchical structure that favors the status quo of unbalance. China’s internal fear is being broken up into many smaller Chinas. Thus, the government there maintains a strong grip on power–to hell with elections. That’s fine; some choose stability over freedom. China has little to no political freedom; minimal social freedom–and I agree that in rural communities, the issue is irrelevant–because the idea of a social community is broad and includes politics; only freedom to emigrate, and many do. On that note, Internationalist and I strongly agree. The one child rule, defend it however you may, is ethically reprehensible and has contributed to the emigration of many. I can see the rationale but there is simply no justification. India has a problem with infanticide. As a Westerner, what I resent more than mere criticisms of Indian and Chinese actions is failure to admit our own mistakes; in fact, we are goddamn hypocrites
However, you need to take note that the caste system is exactly opposite to the industrialization. Because the ideal society for industrialization is a flowable and horizontal society in which every labour can fairly compete for the opportunity therefore increase the effeciency decrease the cost of labour. Caste system on the other hand is a feudal method to stablize the society and chain the labour on the farmland. Therefore india’s industrialization will be greatly undermined by caste system
I essentially agree that the swift eradication of caste will cause social chaos. But what I wanted to point out is: when you look back at the development map of china
We do eradicate our fendal system in a swift strike and suffer a short period of chaos. However, this move enable us a far more rapid industrilization 30 years ago until now.
The question is : Chinese do wiilling to sacrifice their generation to accelerate the development of their son and grandson’s generation, do indian willing to do so? do indian willing to solve the problems now and suffer a bit instead of leaving them to their son and grandson?
I have not moral preference on this issue because I do not know how to choose either. I only offer a explanation to our comparative failure 40 year ago and comparative success now.
Cheers
China: dictatorship + horizontal society= accerlerate industrialization(early and middle stage)
India: democracy + caste= drag down the industrializtion
That is what I have been trying to explain
ever4244: I believe there are some South and Central American countries that would meet your definition of industrializing during democratic rule. Every country is unique regarding politics. India’s democracy does have problems due to the entrenchment of the caste system in some areas, plus a layer of bureaucratic corruption. I agree that both are antithesis of a democracy. But urbanization is accelerating the removal of caste boundaries. The layer of corruption will have to be tackled profession by profession. Overall I would say India’s democracy is a success.
Having said that, there are also problems. Like you said, the infrastructure is not being built. Campaign promises are made that are never kept, projects start and then stop or funds get diverted to other pet projects. They need more centralized and strong regulatory bodies. I don’t think the Chinese government would stand by and allow anti-minority riots like those in Gujarat and Kerala. Many Indian politicians seem to pander to the least informed voters, too many of them are fond of quoting and imitating old German statesmen. I also read the English-language forums in India and there is a strong nationalist and pro-Hindu atmosphere. I’ve noticed some of the same Hindi slogans are used by regulars here. Unfortunately nationalism is often a stage of democracy. Hopefully it won’t get any worse in India but I wouldn’t feel comfortable living there right now as a foreigner.
I notice that some of my posts was deleted, perhaps because I m sort of Anti-tradition type.
Still I would not recede on my statement and I still believe IF A THIRD WORLD NATION WANT TO SUCCESSFULLY INDUSTRIALIZED, SHE NEEDS TO GIVE UP PARTS OF HER OBSOLETE CULTURE AND VALUE
BECAUSE the idealogy in agriculture and feudal age is designed to provent the movement of population and the to decrease the flowability between classes, FOR agriculture requires a simple but continues effort comparing to industry.THAT IS WHY many traditional value no matter western or eastern tends to CONFINE people into different caste and use conservative moral standard to chain them in the farmland.
HOWEVER, A industrial society requires a more flowable, horizontal society to ensure that labours have fair opportunity to compete for jobs and capital have free and abundant accessing to the labour pool. Hence both the efficiency and equality can be achieved.
WESTERN NATION has reformed their culture and value during industrialization hundreds years ago and roman catholic church we see now is no longer the one in middle age
AND ITS TIME FOR US to relinquish some part of our culture and moral if we really want to become industrialized and form a more equal and flowable society
THAT IS MY BELIEVE AND WHY I SUPPORT MAO !
Quote:{I also read the English-language forums in India and there is a strong nationalist and pro-Hindu atmosphere. I’ve noticed some of the same Hindi slogans are used by regulars here. Unfortunately nationalism is often a stage of democracy. Hopefully it won’t get any worse in India but I wouldn’t feel comfortable living there right now as a foreigner.}
Your comment is merit in many senses HOWEVER nationalism is required to build modern state. When you look back to the history of Europe you can see those nation who adopted nationalism prevail why those who clinging to feudal tradition flattened
Nationalism for it own national nature strengthen the link between citizen and nation while lessen the bond between people and people. Before nationalism every knight sworn his loyalty towards his lord and every lords sworn loyalty towards his king
While nationalism requires every single citizen sworn his loyalty directly towards the nation therefore it is nation, not some individuals such as king and lords are the focuses of the people. Hence the direct consequence of nationalsim is the army shift their loyalty from king to state and the peasent began to shift their loyalty from local elite towards state.
The nationalism make every single citizen a cog, merged into the vast statemachine so that the state can unleash unparallel power comparing to its feudal peers. The revolutionary france is a cogent example to illustrate the power of nationalsim
A undirect effect of nationalism is equlity between citizens comparing to feudal order because when nation appeal for her citizens she must give them the feeling of being a citizen of her. That why after adopting naitonalism many european nation became a republic and demoncracy began to form
THEREFORE the sense of nationalsim is especially important for developing nation if she have not experience the same stage happened in europe.
The wake of nationalism in asia:WW2 chinese front
Korea war
vietnam war
india-pakistan war““““““
Hope indian can meantain a health degree of nationalism sense
FOr nationalism is naturely against and form of caste and aristocratic system
I appreciate your progressive attitude. Caste system, however entrenched, is, I admit, an antithesis to democracy, as is the rampant corruption. I blame the people for it, because if there weren’t willing to pay them to begin with, corruption would not be as big a problem. First, they corrupted these men–and men are easily corrupted–and then they complained about it. Because the caste system is so thoroughly entrenched in the Indian culture, instead of rapid eradication, the government allots certain seats in schools, colleges, and the workplace to guarantee that those belonging to a lower caste will not be disinfranchized. It’s not exactly a competitive practice, but it works–it’s pragmatic. I do agree on the need to implement viable infrastructure in India. What I would argue against China is, despite its economic success and growth, the nature of its infrastructure is what limits it potential. That is, given China’s manufacturing capacity, its industrial might, and manpower, China could be much further than it is. Of course, that’s another social issue that needs time to resolve itself. Ultimately, the key to economic success is finding a balance between protectionism (i.e. nationalizing oil fields, for instance) and free market capitalism (i.e. private industries having the most in services, LIMITING (not ELIMINATING) government involvement. India needs a robust infrastructure to reach its potential; China needs to loosen up its restrictive government practices to reach its potential. Both are far from it.
ever4244: There is nationalism and then there is nationalism. You are right that every country goes through some stage of it but there are different degrees. China’s nationalism during the Olympics wasn’t a bad nationalism; Turkey’s nationalism raises some concerns for minority rights but it has also held their country together and kept them strong; and then there is India’s current nationalism, which is very intolerant and dangerous for minorities. There is a point where nationalism starts to look like the fascism of early 20th century Italy and Spain. India isn’t there yet but I am wary of the BJP.
personally speaking, I have nothing against fascism.
fascism, communism, socialism and liberal capitalism are just four topest branches in the social evolutionary tree , diffrent country evolved into different branches so we can always compete and progress.
The way of human is of mercy and love
but the way of heaven is of competition and extinction
war and destruction is a impetus to progress as well as love and construction““`
I am awaring of this sites is pro liberal and therefore““““`:1
Fascism and communism are the two extremes of politics. But if you overlook the small details they start to look a lot alike. Socialism and liberal capitalism are more moderate and flexible. The most advanced and responsible political systems are a combination of these two.
one of my last posts was, let’s say, filtrated for the reason of comparing the evolutionary stages of islam and hinduism. Therefore you have not catch my full meaning.
quote:
{Fascism and communism are the two extremes of politics}
that’s right because I often find the extreme leftists are just unmatured rightists, and extreme rightists are just leftists who lost their initial dreams
However, that does not mean the extreme right or left are not the impetus of progress. Those purified ideology initiate a more dramatic social experiments and the result and consequence will leave models and patterns for those moderate politics to absorb.
We have extreme cases in genetic pool calld mutation, and that is where the evolution draws it material. if every nation’s politics are just moderate combination , the speed of progress will be significantly slower
the glory revolution in britian and the great french revolution , who has more influence in the world and who accelerate the causes of democratical progress?
extremists have their merits and their position in the history be they successful or failed“““`