Can the United States Win a War Against China?
Aby July 17th, 2007
A topic of popular intrigue is a possible war scenario between United States and China, particularly in light of the rapid growth in strengths and capability of the People’s Liberation Army of China. It would be interesting to analyse what the outcomes of such a war could be, considering the overall technological superiority of US military and the strategic superiority of Chinese PLA on their own ground.
Chinese President Hu Jintao (left) and his US counterpart George Bush (right):Let us hope they do not think of coming to military ‘blows’
The most likely reasons for a possible US vs China war could be a US invasion of North Korea or an escalation of the Taiwan dispute. A war of such nature would be fought in the Pacific, which would be of advantage to the better equipped-and-trained US Navy. However, if the US decides to secure its position by invading China, the outcomes would be quite different…and devastating. To understand this in a realistic perspective, what follows is a multi-dimensional analysis of a possible US-China war scenario, encompassing historical trends with the (known) present day military capabilities of both countries.
A look back at history of US conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo and Vietnam shows that the US military, while formidably powerful, is not as invincible as the Anglo-US media wants us to believe. The United States could claim victories in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars based off a strategy of carpet bombing ground locations and a complete lack of opposing air defence to stop the advance of American warplanes. In both these wars, the US forces were aided by local guerilla revolutionaries and a multi-national Coalition Forces.
In contrast to the above semi-victories, an extreme overconfidence by American defence analysts led to the death of 57000+ US forces in the Vietnam War, which was America’s biggest post-World War 2 defeat. In the Kosovo Conflict, the US led NATO forces faced setbacks due to their overconfidence in the US war equipments, particularly the F-117 “Nighthawk” stealth aircraft. The Serbian forces who were undermanned and possessed no credible air defence, managed to shoot down two of these ‘invincible’ Nighthawks, within the first few days of the conflict. They eventually gave up the war, but the conflict brought to light several failures of the US military and also the tendency among the American media to overhype the invincibility of their war machinery.
If the US were to attempt a war with China, it would face a much worse time than it did in Vietnam or Kosovo. A US bombing strike on the Chinese mainland would not only be struck down by the Chinese air defences (SAMs, AAMs, etc.) but also face a full fledged counter attack from China’s PLAAF. The small size of Taiwan would make the US bases there a vulnerable target for Chinese missile attacks, while the huge territorial depth of China would secure itself from an overwhelming counterattack. The PLA and the Chinese people would be unlike any adversary the US faced in the past. Like Kosovo, there would be a lot of surprises in store for US forces but unlike Kosovo they wouldn’t be facing 10,000 disorganised troops. Instead it would be a 2.5 million strong army with full fledged air, ground, sea and missile forces; all backed by a relatively stable economy and effectively dispersed human intelligence (HUMINT).
A war with China would also result in severe economic repercussions for the US due to a major chunk of its economic activities on China and if such a war prolonged, it would throw the American economy into chaos. China’s economy would also be hurt, but the Chinese will be able to carry on much better than Americans, owing to their history of surviving through severly devastating wars in the near past.
A nuclear option would carry an even more severe repurcussion for both sides. In the case of a nuclear first strike by the US, China’s retaliation would obliterate 20-40 of the largest US cities, effectively wiping off 40-100 million people in the American mainland. Even if the US uses its large arsenal to secure a victory, the after-effects of a nuclear exchange will render the American mainland into massive wasteland. There will be no actual victors, only a massive loss of human lives and property.
Further Information and Resources -
- China’s Military Capabilities - Commonwealth Institute
- Sino Defence - Leading Online Source of Information on China’s Military Power
- Air and Missile Campaign in Kosovo
- Military analysis (Book) on Kosovo conflict by Anthony H. Cordesman
Possibly Related posts:
- United States vs China - Consequences of a Nuclear War
- China vs United States: Nuclear Arms Race
- A Brief War History of the United States
- United States and Saddam Hussein - Bloodbath in West Asia
- Nuclear ICBMs of United States and Russia - Past and Present
- Military , Technology , World Politics
- Comments(118)
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I agree with the author the US military superity is only a hype to scare off weak countries. Just look at all those thousands of technologically superior force to fight against a few hundred ground forces in Kosovo and you get the picture.
Iraq is already sapping off US strength, a war with China is a nightmare come true. Wish such a thing never comes across a future president.
No country in the world can invade china. U.S won the war in Afghanistan because of help and support from its allies, otherwise it would have faced the same fate as the former Soviet Union. U.S is superpower because of its global alliance not military might.
US would win war against any country including China. Here is why -
1) The United States is the only super power
2) We spend more money in defense than total GDP of most countries
3) We have more nukes than any other country and the most powerful of them
Chinese have large numbers of people which mean nothing, it will take a few hours to finish their pitchfork and sword brandishing army. We also have stealth, their army will be screwed. We have better and more trained forces and most of the Chinese people would be on our side anyways.
@ Speaker Known -
“The United States is the only super power”
I don’t see how being a super power have a military advantage for USA against China.
“We spend more money in defence than total GDP of most countries”
Does spending more money means superior force? If that be so, India would have been the fourth most powerful military force in the world, surpassing UK and France.
“We have more nukes than any other country and the most powerful of them.”
Wrong on both counts. Russia posesses the maximum number of nuclear warheads and it also has the most powerful nuclear bomb, the Tsar Bomba
“..it will take a few hours to finish their pitchfork and sword brandishing army.”
Can you expect us to give you any credit after this?
“We also have stealth, their army will be screwed”
Conventional stealth is old technology, easy to detect by themal detectors, satellite sensing of turbulence or multiple radars. It would be a suicide to bank on stealth while invading China.
“We have better and more trained forces and most of the Chinese people would be on our side anyways.”
You didn’t have Vietnamese, Iraqi, the North Koreans os the Serbs on your side. What makes you think China will be any different?
We don’t need to invade China to win a war against them; just stop having all American goods made in China; close Wal-Mart factories there and return them to America and put the low-income Americans in need of jobs to work in factories the Chinese are getting the money for. The best revenge on a country which is threatening the U.S. like China is, is to stop manufacturing our goods there–completely.
If we closed all U.S. factories and brought them home to America where they belong, China would kiss our ass. It would alos solve the illegal immigration problem, because if we need more room for car factories, build them in Mexico over the border and put the Mexicans to work so they will stop invading us. But more important, the best weapon against China is stopping U.S. industry there and returning our products to the U.S. Let’s see how long they last without America buying from them. They’ll be back to post WWII within months and begging to apologize for their leader’s threats.
@ Lisa Richards - “…The best revenge on a country which is threatening the U.S. like China is, is to stop manufacturing our goods there–completely.”
China is nowhere close to threatening US, a lot of the anti-China hype created in the Anglo-Saxon US is based on the perceived threat that China is getting militarily powerful to counter US influence in East Asia. If we take any official or unofficial statements made by the Chinese government, there are no such threats made by China against US which are offensive in nature. Perhaps a little reading of news and references would be helpful.
@ Lisa Richards - “If we closed all U.S. factories and brought them home to America where they belong, China would kiss our ass.”
Factories are not fluid assets, you cannot simply close them and bring them to America. US companies would end up running losses if they decided to relocate to Mexico. Mexico does not have the economy and skilled cost-effective personell to support American industries. They are best as domestic help and industrial labourers in contrast to China where most of the industrial workers are qualified engineers.
@ Lisa Richards - “Let’s see how long they last without America buying from them. They’ll be back to post WWII within months and begging to apologize for their leader’s threats.”
You seem to be dimly aware of history. Post world war was one of the few times in history China was actually threatening US, mainly over Taiwan and North Korean issue. To give stronger credibility to their threat and to overcome US nuclear blackmail China went to to develop nuclear weapons and missiles to deliver them in US targets. If there is any good Sino-US relations, it is at the present age which started off after US tried to improve relations with China in the 1980s to counterbalance Soviet threats in the lines of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
One has to be realistic, as far as wars go it is not a fight between machines but men. United States has one of the best air forces but it is ground combat which determine the victory. Air power only goes as much since it is not bombings or air power that take a country and to take China they’ll have to take it with ground combat. I thought there were lessons to learn from Iraq, Vietnam and Hitler’s battle of Stalingrad.
The American economy would be nowhere near collapse if it wars with China, but the Chinese economy would most certainly collapse. China has a large trade surplus with the US and that surplus accounts for a very large portion of it’s total GDP. American exports to China amounts to a very small fraction of it’s GDP. You have your facts all wrong. Additionally, the Chinese would lose their investments in U.S. government bonds if a war started, which would completely cripple that country. In terms of actual warfare, the U.S. has shown it’s strength against organized armies. Guerilla warfare is unwinnable by any country in the world, this is obvious throughout history. But barring an occupation of China, straight military to miltary conflict this is a no brainer and extremely obvious. The bulk of Chinese forces are composed of WWII and Vietnam Era hardward with only a small fraction of those forces composed of more contemporary hardware. The U.S. military on the other hand is the most advanced in the world. Additionally, the American military has a backup inventory of older jets it could easily bring back into service for such large scale conflicts. The recently decommission F-14 tomcats for example could easily take down everything but the absolute latest in Chinese airpower. Again, bulk of the Chinese airforce is composed of old Mig-19’s, Mig-21’s, and Mig 23’s, all of which are no match for even an F-14, much less F-15 or F-22. And in such a war, I doubt the U.S. would be crazy enough to try to occupy a country as big as China, it would probably just destroy it’s ability to make war, similar to the first gulf war, albeit it would take longer than 4 days, but it would not take more than a couple weeks to render China unable to wage conventional war. And believe me, without an Airforce or Navy, the Chinese will not be able to war conventional war.
@ Only The Facts - “The American economy would be nowhere near collapse if trade stops with China, but the Chinese economy would most certainly collapse……You have your facts all wrong.”
Sino-US economic import-export relations and investments government bonds represent a small part of the larger economic interdependence between these two countries. China is the last link in a long chain of value added production for the US goods and services industries due to its low cost and easy availability of skilled labour. US is able to compete and have a slight edge over EU economy at present mainly because of its cost minimisation by investments in India and China, once this disappears, EU companies will take over. Most of the US corporates invested heavily in China with at least 37% of their investments in solid fixed assets (buildings, factories,etc.), if a US-China war is to occur these companies would face the first crunch in the form of huge losses of their backbone infrastructure and cost advantage. After the war and losses, the companies would need another source of cheap labour to recoup. European Union will gain an advantage over US in such a situation as EU has East European countries with cheap labour but a bit more expensive than China due to higher exchange rates and per capita GDP (PPP). US economic analysts are aware of these facts as subsequent annual economic reports to the Congress would show. It is for these reasons that US companies keep a love-hate relationship with China’s CPC government, they do not want to risk a conflict on the issues which are not directly in consequence to their corporate interests.
A few official resources which would help you understand Sino-US economic relations -
U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission: 2006 Report to Congress
Foreign Investment In China - 2006
The US China Business Council
Concerning a military conflict on the scale of a war, the US Department of Defence is well aware of China’s strategic nuclear deterrance and the stand of PLA against US forces in a communist military model. Needless to say, US would suffer huge losses and possible defeat if they were to try an invasion of China. Wars are fought not on hardware alone but on several other important factors mainly command, control, military intelligence, surveillance, tactics, target acquisition and information. If hardware superiority were all that is required to win wars, USSR could have taken over the whole of Asia and Europe owing to its overpowering nuclear offence and defence superiority over US. A US vs China war would not be a contests between fighters like F-22s and Su-30s but a multi-dimensional US vs China conflict involving military (air force, navy, ground force, etc.), espionage, nuclear forces, infrastructure, human population and economy besides several other variables. It is very fortunate that governments and military strategists are not as short-sighted and fantasy reliant as nationalists in both these countries who would desire a war to happen.
“US vs China war would not be a contests between fighters like F-22s and Su-30s but a multi-dimensional US vs China conflict involving military (air force, navy, ground force, etc.)”
No other country on earth has shown as much success as the U.S. in terms of integrating it’s armed services into a logistical masterpiece, especially not China, which hasn’t even tested it’s armed forces in large scale conflict since the Vietnam War. Conventional war, the odds are overwhelmingly on the side of the U.S., absolutely overwhelmingly. The capacity of the current American military far surpasses that of China and American industrial might is far more powerful than that of China. Spears and rocks won’t take down F-22’s, sorry. Imagine China trying to take over South Central L.A., hahaha, I think they are better armed in that ghetto than they are in the PLA, hahaha.
I won’t want to invade China taking into account their rapidly improving military and their nuclear forces capable of striking the States. The Chinese PLAAF has numbers (largest fleet of Su 27 fighters) is rapidly trying to improve the quality of both its Air Force and Navy. With a conventional force close to US and Japan in quality and a strategic advantage in its own mainland, PLA would be a difficult force to reckon with. We may have the best force in the world but we are also known for winning a war even before it started. The mistakes in Vietnam and Korea taught is the hard way not to spit in a hornet’s nest without taking care of the potential consequences.
@only the facts
the U.S industrial machine you speak of was the strongest in the world—during WWII days. The U.S now has a $250 billion trade deficit with China, sure China needs the income from the U.S too…but in a war…China is more self reliant for its day to day operations and is likely to come out ahead in a scenario of elongated conflict.
It is also important to remember history, the Japanese in Iwo Jima lost the island to the US forces, but the victory was a very costly one. The US marines faced such a death toll that they had to use a nuclear weapon to force Japan to surrender. Never underestimate the will of a determined enemy. I believe that the morale and code with which a military fights is equally if not more important than the hardware with which it wages war.
If a war happened between US and China I would pack my bags and take the first plane outta here. I don’t want to die because of the mess created by some stupid politicians. Let those like ‘only the facts’ go fight China with F-22, we can make do with a few idiots less.
Only the facts, you are talking only about fighter war. Real wars are not video game to take a few sorties, shoot down enemies and declare victory. Ignorant right wing jibes cannot change the fact that a REAL war of invasion on China would be a no-win situation for US or any country for that matter. There will be no hope to occupy China or even a tiny portion of it, it is huge and has a population four times that of America. To supply a large enough occupation force to do any type of good so far from homeland would be a logistical nightmare. China cannot be underestimated it can strike back real hard, so hard that it will be the war that saps off US military power and collapse it like Soviet Union. A war with China will only be a fool’s errand.
people like “only the facts” dont have a clue, Chine has over 7 million millitary personal and a paramillitary of more than all of the us army, you’ld think that they might have lear’nt by now from iraq, afghanistan, vietnam an former Yougoslavia.GPD and the wrest of that crap do
not win wars.
The United States has a technologically superior military in some respects but it takes a lot more than that to defeat a country like China. Wars are not video games one cannot win wars with better gadgets. Even the US military is aware of it which is why a large chunk of DoD Budget goes into strategy rather than technology. Why do you think the US tries to find the merest pretext for fighting a war? If the Kosovo war never happened, Americans would still have thought F-117 is invincible. Anyone who saw the hype surrounding the invincible F-117 was in for a shock when Serbs downed two of them using equipments a generation old and barely in battle condition. It is the uber-nationalists among Americans who have one sided view of warfare without understanding wars of reality.
In response to Only_the_facts’ comment
“The bulk of Chinese forces are composed of WWII and Vietnam Era hardward with only a small fraction of those forces composed of more contemporary hardware. The U.S. military on the other hand is the most advanced in the world.”
Are you trying to deliberately sound stupid or what? Nothing could be less factual than this.
“The recently decommission F-14 tomcats for example could easily take down everything but the absolute latest in Chinese airpower. “
You can’t just take out fighters from mothballs and use them in wars silly. It will be a suicide to do it without battle testing and training new pilots. The Flankers in China will end up destroying all F-14 Tomcats that is if they survive a sophisticated SAM defence.
“Again, bulk of the Chinese airforce is composed of old Mig-19’s, Mig-21’s, and Mig 23’s, all of which are no match for even an F-14, much less F-15 or F-22. “
Absolutely false. China has no Migs in its inventory at all, how can it have in bulk something it doesn’t have in the first place? Most of PLA attack force is made up of Su-27 and Su-30 Flankers. Brush up your knowledge of chinese air force instead of making up such rubbish opinions.
“Spears and rocks won’t take down F-22’s, sorry.”
You talk as if Chinese are some primitive beings and American F-22 is something futuristic to destroy these primitive beings. F-22s can be handicapped by electronic jamming devices, passive multistatic radars, older generation long wave radar, turbulence detection, increased RCS detection after dropping weapons, etc. F-22 is just a new generation fighter not some alien predator device, grow up and accept reality.
Imagine China trying to take over South Central L.A., hahaha, I think they are better armed in that ghetto than they are in the PLA, hahaha.”
Typical American. With this comment you prove yourself, an antithesis of you screenname. Stop insulting your country with your stupidity.
I’m American and I live next to Edwards Air force base home of the B2 ‘Spirit’ bomber. Let me tell you… the Marines and Air force personnel here think a war with China would be the end of the world. Massive amounts of natural forest protection from an air campaign and the 9 or so delta rivers I’m sure the Navy would love to battle every centimeter through. Maybe a Vietnam vet could relive some nightmares of the Mekong… as it runs through China also. We’re talking about a country with a total population comparable to that of the entire Muslim world. F22 my ass.
Mr.facts keeps surprising me. I really dont know where he gets his “facts”. A war with china would not just mean nightmare, it would mean world war 3!! I am quite sure That if usa attacks china, china will try to regain foothold in taiwan, iliminate pro american south korea and ofcourse north korea will support its ally china, so will vietnamjapan will be dragged in and it will go so on and so forth. America can barely support its forces in iraq! They cant even hit iran now let alone china.
Can the United States Win a War Against China?
ANS: NOBODY will win the war. All they gonna get is huge Kick on their technologically, Qualitatively, Quantitatively Superior Fat ass & will be converted from SUPERPOWER to SUPERPOOR countries.
@All
Can we keep the discussion a bit civil?
Lets take this…we are discussing a hypothetical situation of a Sino US armed conflict, and lets remember this throughout this post, US will never dream or desire to occupy China and would restrict itself to punitive strikes to render the PLA incapable for sometime if not forever, in following a overtly aggressive anti US military stance.Keeping the economic fallouts aside,the military conflict still would be very complex.US no doubt has a huge technological advantage over China, together with a massive blue water naval and air superiority.Add to this their exponential war experiences as compared to China’s relatively no experience in an all out war for quite some years. Let’s dehype the Chinese military strength and consider the fact, that the conflict is bound to escalate in seamless stages.The first will possibly be precission air raids on vital military installations in the Chinese mainland.China will possibly try to strike on US bases in South Korea and the US naval vessels that US would already have deployed in an attempt to enforce a naval blockade similar to the one during the Cuban crisis. The PLAAF has doubtful capabilities of striking into the US mainland and would avoid launching long range missiles at the US mainland thereby causing huge civilian casualties as long as USAF continues carrying surgical strikes on tactical and strategic military installations avoiding Chinese civilian facilities. This will continue for a while because the USAF won’t be able to enforce complete air superiority over the Chinese airspace overnight.Though China has good numbers of 4th Gen fighters together with some well debated 5th Gen crafts, it still has very limited and doubtful credible air defence systems and EJDs. However the war in the sea will be more complex, as the PLAN has a sigeable no. of submarine based assault systems along with missile boats that are quite capable of harrasing the US Fleets and may even pose grave threats to the carriers. Much will depend on the PLAs deternination whether to limit the conflict to the vicinity and wait for international intervention or to escalate the fight by carrying the attacks to the US territorial waters….
As long as the US forces restrict the attacks to the military installations and facilities…its very unlikely that the PLA or US would resort to nuclear brinkmanship.However if the war escalates with US strikes on Chinese civil,financial or business facilities and China feels threatened of complete US dominance…it might try to demonstrate its resolve to defend itself through nuclear might in following theatrical manouevers…
1.By detonating a nuclear devise in its own unmanned terrain.
2.Using a sub kiloton tactical devise on the adversary in its own territory.
3.Firing a warhead, again carrying a sub kiloton devise on one of the enemy ships,in its own territorial waters.
This would definitely result in counter offensive in a similar tone albeit the US strategists would be forced to reconsider on their offensive knowing equally well that if the conflict fails to be contained or limited, it might surely lead to a nuclear first srike by China, irrespective of their so called “No First Use” policy.
The moral of the story is…
1.US can never possibly win a continental war against the PLA involving territorial armies.
2.China can not sustain a prolonged air and naval conflict with the US without resorting to nuclear devices.
3.Air and Naval confrontation between China and the US is more likely to cost more to China than US.
4.The aftermath of the confrontation would cripple the PLA,PLAAF and PLANs capabilities and make them vulnerable to the other regional military powers namely,Russia,India,Japan and Australia.
5.Thus, inspite of Beizing’s gung ho attitude towards Taiwan and other issues…it will desist from a confrontation with the US as long as possible.
ok just recovered from laughing at some of the posts by americans here.God what deluded fantasy world do they live in.Chinese swords hahaha against American super aircraft etc.Cakewalk victory for america again ehh.Forget it buddies you attack China and you will be a smoking wilderness.First the majority of your planes could not penetrate Chinese airspace as stated recently by an American air force general.Second China can hit your satelites as they demonstrated recently by destroying one of their own old ones.Thirdly they have anti ship missiles that cannot be intercepted they bought those from Russia [cant remember the name].fourth they are producing their own excellent fighter and ground attack aircraft the J10.fifth they have nukes and the ability to deliver them by aircraft submarine and missile and last they have a potential army of a least 100 million if put on war footing with conscription.And if you think the Chinese people will welcome you. oh you poor sad creatures.
I pray to god that this war would never happen….
China would not ‘win’, in the traditional sense. They would suffer the worst as far as human losses and economic damage. Furthermore China’s population is heavily concentrated in a small area, so destruction of cites would cause millions of deaths. However, china does infact have a better trained army, which is also far larger then the U.S army.
Personally I think that the U.S could come out on top if things turn their way. The same is true for china. Either way it would be one brutal war.
(Yes I know about the spelling mistakes, and the grammar as well. Don’t insult me about them. They are unimportant and you know it.)
Those among who think US can’t beat China are liberal idiots. The US can defeat China in a war HANDS DOWN! Chinas still a 3rd world country trying to pick up with others and spending billions on military. Lets face it, its still using World War 2 military equips. Americans have advantage in every area in a war with China, it is just a matter of days the Peijing and Shanghai fall down to dust.
US Patriot
henry you do know where allies and hypoteticaly speaking if america lose europe is going down you think china middle east and russia will welcome you existant ofcourse there faking it because they would not whant to figth a 2 front war it will be so much harder thats why germany lose the war they learn from that but if you guys font whant to help the u.s.a ok youll die to so its ok
Kalvin I do not see China as being any threat to the world,it has never been a belligerent imperial nation.America on the other hand is obsessed with world domination and they have no morals or scruples about how they achieve that end.They talk endlessly about freedom but were happy to hand half of Europe to the soviet union at yalta in 1945.While I understand that the Filippinos have a high regard for America which I believe comes from the Americans help in expelling the Japanese from the Philippines in 1944.But dont forget that 40 years earlier they were slaughtering Filippinos when they wanted the islands as an imperial foothold in the orient.Like all imperial powers America is all about self interest.It is not good for the world to have only one superpower it needs another as a counterweight.In my opinion China [while not perfect] is the best candidate for the role as unlike Russia and America it does not have a history of endless aggression.
@ US Patriot
Perhaps reading up on the Kosovo conflict would help clear things—more like, shatter your overconfidence, actually. If the Serbs could do THAT kid of damage, I think it is more than obvious that China could do a whole lot worse.
That was enlightening. Perhaps the United States is fighting the Iraq war using Civil War military equipments, that might explain its apparently failure to tame the situation there. Why bother a war with China anyway, I am sure if we send you with a BB gun and pods, you’d be able to take out the entire China. Oh yes, the sight of an American as you would probably scare them to mass migrate to India or Russia to save themselves.
Hypothesis is an ‘if’ situation and when you look at things that way anything can happen. A better hypothesis can be held credible ONLY if it can be supported with a reasonable argument that something is more likely to happen than not. Neither China nor Russia have had an imperial history as bloodlusty as America did. As if killing 20 million of the natives is not enough, the world had to contend with losing 11-19 million humans to American aggression in the last 50 years. We cannot assume that China would be a tyrant until and unless it has shown a strong tendency to be as hegemonic as US neo-colonialism in Asia and Latin America is. As of now, all China does is trade - like it has been doing for the past 5000 years.
Like all countries that are not the USA, you have a storied history of savagery, cruelty, and injustice. The only country that is worth saving is the United States, and perhaps Britain, Australia, and New Zealand. Our superior karma will be a deciding factor in any conflict.
American you are having a laugh right.No Savagery ,cruelty,or injustice in American history ?!!!.Is there anything other than savagery cruely and injustice in it.Where does one start .Slaughter of millions of native Americans and theft of their Continent,Enslavement of millions of Africans,Slaughter of over a million Filippinos,Slaughter of millions of non combatants in World war 2,Slaughter of millions in Korea,Slaughter of millions of Vietnamese and poisoning of their country with agent orange.Involvement in the slaughter and the injustice perpetrated on the Palestinians.And now unjust attack on Iraq and slaughter there.Not to mention the mayhem you have brought to other nations by helping brutal dictators keep power if they are prepared to kiss your obese butts.You have destroyed the lives of countless millions of innocent people and will not stop until some great nation brings Karma to you.
What “great” nation might that be ? Russia perhaps ? Without the U.S. and her influence the world would be ten times the nightmare it currently is.
hahahahaha…
everybody knows that the true winners of a China US world war would be the Europeans!
we Europeans aren’t dumb enough to help america in that inevitably Chinese controlled war, and certainly are too smart to help the chinese if (IF!) the Yanks win..
but i agree that the yanks are too delusional for their own good.
seriously, talking of the US as if they are really the world’s most powerful country..
the EU has has a total GDP waaay bigger than the US, and the combined industrial, commercial and agricultural might of the EU far outshadows the US.
after the ashes of WW3, the world will be governed by the United States of Europe. then, and only then, will world peace be truly achieved. safe from the threat of dumb texans and christian fundamentalists
Ok, the U.S. would win in a war against China, conventionally, an invasion would be extremely sketchy. China does have some submarines but not to the level of the USSR in the 80s, all China could hope to do nautically would be to deter the U.S. from blockading them. As far as anti ship missiles, The U.S. has quite sophisticated defense systems especially if you consider the combination of a carrier battle group as a whole. In the air the Chinese military would not be able to fly outside of their airspace as the U.S. airfoce is really a generation ahead. The Chinese air-defense would be strong but doubtful if it could cover the whole of the country, in looking at air defense please dont use wild speculation and half minded historical examples. the Yom Kippur war is a good example of a tight integrated air defense, where the Israiles couldn’t strike across the Suez canal, or the air defenses of Hanoi in Vietnam, but even in these extreme cases air power was still able to get trough. as far as the F117, it is a 70s fighter and not very maneuverable/ fitted with capable counter measures so an infrared missile would easily down it. Now for the land battles, if any, the true stenghts of the U.S. integrated amed forces comes to light. look at both gulf wars, in the first the Iraqis vastly outnumbered the allies but the air power of the allies crippled them, not to mention the power of the NATO style tanks as opposed the Warsaw style which shined through. as far as using Vietnam and Iraq as examples of the weaknesses of the U.S., those are not wars but occupations and no army does well when they have to occupy a country against a rebel force. and in Korea the chinese vastly outnumbered the U.S. but were unable to fully beat them even with the help of Russian tech. today the technology is in The U.S.’s favor.
Large conventional wars are about technology not individuals, occupations are about individuals in a conventional war with China the U.S. has a distinct advantage, in an occupation neither side would have a clear victory, though I would assume a puppet regeime would be installed in Beijing from Taiwan and the stable Chinese beauocracy would be transfered and there wouldnt be as many problems as with Iraq or Vietnam, it might be more like Japan or Germany, but I dont know and any real speculation is just speculation.
and as far as the U.S. and freedom, the Russians kinda took control of the eastern countries following WWII and the allies could do little as Stalin was steadfast and any prods to get him to give up say, Poland would lead to another war which is not what was wanted following a world war. as is was part of the U.S.’s reasoning in Nuking Japan was to not allow the Russians to take control of all of Korea and maybe part of Japan. And yes the U.S. was imperialistic in 1900 but, i forget, weren’t all of the western countries quite imperialistic in that period, even Belgium had the Congo, which was probably the worst maintained colony in Africa, almost a genocide. and for going into Korea, it was a U.N. action lead by the U.S. Kosovo was a NATO action and Vietnam was well.. that one was ridiculous and wrong. But if I remember correctly China is occupying Tibet and doesnt allow baisic rights to its citizens, far worse than the U.S.
In all your hate for the U.S. look back at history and you’ll see that in comparison to the other world leaders at thier time and in comparison to China that it is quite benevolent, yes it has its many flaws especially recently but on a whole it is the lesser of two evils.
There is no doubt the US can defeat China repeat no doubt. The question is will the US be willing to pay the price to pulverize China.Assuming the US detonates 1000 nuclear weapons on China.The China won’t take it lying down.
The PLa will probably destroy Chicago,Washington,New York and at least ten other ities. The number of cities to be destroyed will increase as the PLA gets stronger each day.
That is why Bush and his cronies want the missile defence to aim at NK and Iran. If you are in charge of China’s defence and you believe Bush you are in dereliction of your duty and shd be executed.
Bush and the next US president better know the days they can attack China and others and be immune from attack are going to be over soon.
The US says it won’t be subject ot nuclear blackmail.let’s check the facts.The US has over 20000 nuclear warheads. China has only 100.Tell who is stronger. However the will to use the nw is crucial.
Ok the US might have more nuclear weapons, but china has more people.
It’s really 50:50.
Besides, there are no threats against China or US, and they don’t have any reasons to attack each other, so no war warning.
(you should be happy, nobody wants to die!!!)
A war with China would result in what those well-versed in the Cold War era refer to as MAD (mutually assured destruction). We can talk about who has what until the cows come home - bottom line is that both countries would crumble economically given their complete dependence on one another. China cannot match the superiority of the United States Navy or Air Force and won’t be able to do so for decades. What people forget is that China doesn’t need to match American Naval and Aerial Firepower. The only thing they’d need to do if hostilities broke out is conduct a couple of nuclear tests in view of advancing US forces and it would be back to diplomacy. Doubt it’ll happen and pray that it doesn’t.
Why was this topic created in the first place? The chinese army has NO INTENTION of starting a war with ANYBODY! As said by Aby, the Chinese have only been trading internationally and recovering from its centuries of humiliation by the rest of the world and a few stupid leaders like Mao. I truly believe that the Chinese are not an aggressive nation with imperialistic aims.
Americans are known throughout history to undertake DRASTIC measures to get what they want. A nuclear war would be started by the United States. AND the Chinese are more self-dependent than the United States ( as seen by the countless fucking number of things i see made in china). But IF this war had to happen, which might not occur for maybe another 10 years, lets see China’s history in the past decade. It grew from a shittyass 3rd world country to the worlds fastest growing economy in less than 50 years. It put a man into space. It’s also hosting the Olympics in a few days and has gained international credit in the UN Security Council as well as Nato. So, if the Chinese did ALL that shit in 5 decades, what else can they do in 10 or less years? There is no doubt that they can match our military technology within a few more years, not even mentioning its military personnel size. It has the largest fleet of Su-27 and su-30s, an impenetrable SAM defense system, a better trained ground forces, and other superpowers like Russia to back it up. So it is completely absurd that dumbasses like ONly_the_facts would say fighting the war against the Chinese would be easy.
America’s international policies and claiming to be “the world’s policeman” are complete bullshit. We need to stop fucking with other people’s business and allow the rest of the world to have their chance at making their own lives better (not making them worse by fucking attacking everybody, screwing up their lives, and saying we’re making ur lives better. Every person that isn’t american on this topic has seemed to agree that America is doing more harm to the rest of the world than good. It uses its goals of “freedom and peace” to cover up its self-centered belief to maintain its role as the world’s number 1 superpower.
Bottom point: No the United States cannot win a War with China simply because of its worsening international status, failing economy, military rapage in the Middle east, and it’s dependency on China. It will eventually end up in a nuclear war which will cause horrific damage to both sides, but the US will end up more crippled due to its vast dependencies on other nations. And it is highly unlikely that other nations will help the US so fuck dat, best thing to do is back off and let the Chinese be the next superpower.
as an American Military combatant, I fear war with any industrialized nation such as China. Fighting insurgents in Iraw and Afghanistan is like when the Varsity team practices with the Junior Varsity football team to tune up their skills. In war with China, neither side wins. Each country is crippled financially and all this does is open the door for another industrialized nation, such as Russia, India, or perhaps parts of Western Europe to take the reigns as world’s superpower. I see why those living outside the United States carry bitter feelings toward us; I would be bitter if another country was the best country in the world, plain and simply. But we have the best quality of life and even the Chinese are mimmicking us. Socialist governments fail because citizens of those countries wish to live the westerns style of life. Let’s be realistic. Nobody here can undermine the ridiculous superiority the U.S. has in military might over almost any country, including China. But The real test of power is restraining that might and acting diplomatically. That’s what should happen. Anybody wishing for war is some armchair quarterback who has never seen war and has never fought, and is totally ignorant towards the military. I believe that pride comes before the fall, and I’m probably not the only one to notice China established itself far before the U.S. in the world.
I am a Filipino American and I have been traveling to the Philippines the past few years.
I made a few Mainland Chinese friends and they claim that US is going to collapse and China will be the new World Superpower.. They are happy and only 24 years old and can’t wait to see America go under with all their debt. World War 3 they said is already here.. by collapsing the American economy and China with all their money can control the world.
China is like plastic going against metal, of course the U.S would win
The U.S is trying to take over the world!
U.S-COUNTIES FOUGHT : CHINA,RUSSIA,JAPAN,IRAQ Vietnam,North Korea,MEXICO,SPAIN,GERMANY,Uk, afGANisTan ,ETC.
COUNTIES THEY ALMOST FOUGHT: CUBA ,IRAN,ETC.
Now that Obama is the president I don’t think that he is going to try to attack China. He is more peaceful than Bush. Plus, the Europeans don’t hate him like Bush so they don’t want war either.
Let’s not try to have a war between China and the U.S. Both side will have a lot of damage. Then Russians will be the strongest. So let’s not have a war. That what the evil Russians want!
Ok, shure i agree that the U.S. is in better starting point right now, but not for long. They depend on other countries to much. They owe China A TON OF MONEY and also the economy in the U.S. is getting worse by the second.
-Only_The_Facts- what you say is bullshit the U.S. will have a hard time against china, its not a video game so why dont you just go out and play with your matchbox cars or something
i cant believe i read everything here. To keep it simple shall we? With conventional modern warefare (no nukes) -At this current point in time China will struggle more than America if either side tries to invade the other. In fact China has not modernised with the capability of launching such a campaign anyway. Any more? No country can INVADE and i mean totally occupy India not to mention China but cripple both sides at least somewhat to the Americans with China taking more losses. Perhaps a stalemate is my guess treating this topic like a computer game because in RL things, variations and uncertainties of war are just too many! That said there are no facts in such a hypothetical situation but an educated guess. no five pages of reference!
Since China has nukes it wont ever simply be invaded or taken over like Iraq. Invasions will not happen. Skirmishes are more of a possibility but who knows maybe one day both will become shallow or ruthless nuts (nah not gonna happen). The only ‘battles’ i can see are skirmishes which do not extend into ‘Invasions’ possibly off the coast of China for some political issues like Taiwan Independence and USA flexing its muscles.
The Chinese might prepare for a confrontation with the Americans but get real who want to fight the Americans anyway? Nobody!
To China, nothing is more precious than to loose an inch of her territory. Take Taiwan for example. The Chinese Govt. had already declared they will fight at any cost to regain Taiwan. This imply they are prepared to fight US and Japan in both conventional and nuclear if they intervene on Taiwan behalf.
There is no reason for China to confront or invade US. The Chinese Govt. never want to acknowledge they are the future super power. All they want is to be left alone in peace and focuss on improving their economy and provide a better living standard for her people.
However, at the same time they want to ensure China will never be bully or be invaded by any other Forces again. She had gone thru 150 yrs of humililation and that was the worst moment for any Chinese who learnt of the history of unequal Treaties.
The Chinese is smart enough not to match the American in Conventional Weapons.
They have learnt the lesson from former USSR which went bankrupt inorder to compete with America in Defence spending.
Some Americans who made posting here appeard to be too simplistic in painting the
overwhelming superiority of US Military might and come to an early conclusion she can easily defeat China.
The Chinese had fought US in both The Korean War and Vietnam War. Inspite of US overwhelming superiority in both Air & Sea, US had lost in North Korea and Vietnam.
Superior Technology does not gurantee to win a war. Ultimately is still the human being. If there is a war between US & China over Taiwan, the entire Chinese population will definitely be united as one. Any invasion by US forces on Chinese soil will be suicide. Over the last 10 years, the PLA had came out without a strategy & gone into the niche areas where she could defeat or neutralise US potent weapons
such as F22 and Aircraft carrier battle group. There will be many new surprises.
It won’t be a walk in the Park for US military. China is prepared to make the sacrifices. During Mao’s time, they had infact prepared for a Nuclear War with USSR.
Is America Ready to do so ?
No one would win this war. Especially if a nuclear war began. Millions of lives would be lost on both sides and for what? Diplomatic and friendly relations should continue to be the answer. We don’t have to agree on everything, but war is certainly not the solution.
I’m Vietnamese, to me we must start a full media war. Broadcast free over the Air from satellite, radio or TV. Commies Chinazi really afraid their own people know the truth about the devil communist. We must get rid of the mafia Vietcong first. The Vietnamese hate Chinazi because of their invading land and sea by the chinazi. The Vietnamse are better in Guerrilla war Tactics than the chinazi, if the American willing to suppy the power. We Vietnamese know the chinazi very well more anyone else. The Tibetian, The Laotian, India, Japan, Taiwan, plus many more. Together we easily take out the baster Chinazi Commies. Chinazi is big but only talk, it’s very empty air inside. Communist must die…
In total war both sides lose, clear and simple.
US may have nuclear superiority but the uncontested fact remains that 150 Chinese multimegaton devices will wipe out 80% of the US population within the first week and 90% of the remaining population over the next year. 6 million surviving Americans vs maybe 1 million surviving Chinese does not mean the US wins…
In a limited war both would also lose, but who wins the military victory depends on the scenario and chance. Hawaii = guaranteed US win, Taiwan = tossup and depends on extent of escalation.
Lets hope it never happens,the Chinese leadership and people are inteligent enough not to instigate it.But not sure that can be said about the American side given the overconfident and arrogant attitude displayed by many American posters here and the fact that they are capable of electing semi retarded leaders such as the previous US president to office not once but twice!!!.
kalvin, I think China would probably invade Europe if Europeans attack them. In history since when did China ever expanded East and West?
The only people that might attack Europe are probably Russia, and probably some middle eastern.
If the Americans aren’t complaining/threatening about China or Russia taking over half the land of Asia, I doubt China would be involve. Actually I blame the greed that people made in the Cold War (Cold War started all this).
The idea of a war is truely ridiculous… and numbers probably wouldnt matter.. well it would… but not as much as people might think. The idea of an invasion would be suicide by the united states. the war would be most naval, air and missle combat. The united states isnt far superior than the chinese but i think everyone can agree that it is a bit more advanced… and this war is nothing like iraq so comparing the this scenario to iraq is the most retarded thing to say. but in conclusion if this war were to happen the united states would win. But the war would most likely end with both countries destroyed. The war between the 2 is impossible. well almost
I agree on Max comment. Insfied of all the facts we hear and read are merely good information. Well USA must never let our defense down and we just seek better way to strike if we have to.. The best defense is offense…be ready since they seems to be creeping close to our shoreline already. They are doing cyberspies on our system already to cripple us so we can not strike back on them in time of war. We must never trust them and in the meantime try to get along.
the usa would wipe our asses with china. then we would go to europe and smash on the weak french, the suddenly peace loving germans and whoever else wanted a taste of this american might! we are the strongest country the world has ever known. our wemon are sexxxier. our beer is better. our dicks are bigger. who wants some???? not china, not russia, not any tight pants wearing european country, not iran, WHO ? the world is lucky im not president id make war with china just because i heard they got little dicks lolololololololol !!!! BOW DOWN TO THE MIGHTY AMERICANS !!!!!!
the usa would win china just has numbers numbers dont win wars the usa has skill china dosent have that much of a larger military eather and if i was preisdent and we went to war whith china i would bomb there citis till all the cilvilans are died
Looks like stephen and tyler are either the same idiot or have got the same parents.
Stephen -
I hope you are joking??? Your Neanderthal thinking is silly. I’m Asian and your comparison to penis size is insulting and racist at best. Sorry to break the bad news, but Americans are the not the best endowed. There was an actual study done on this topic. Among white males, it was the French and Italians. I saw this on Wikipedia. Maybe white guys are larger but most Asian people have bigger brains. I’ll take a smart man any day of the week. I would never date a dumb guy like you.
Look, I am American and I know how the world perceives us because of bullshit in the media.
We are not as blood thirsty and dumb as you think, if that were true then the United States could not exist as it does today.
Anyways, I am not of the opinion that my country is the greatest, I think it is one of the best, among many.
War with China would be stupid, not only for the parties involved, but for the world as a whole.
China, or any country for that matter, has the human right to improve their way of life.
War is not going to improve anything.
America and China will simply have to co-exist, and who knows, maybe other countries will rise to power too.
There is no reason to be afraid of another power in the world, America cannot be the only superpower forever.
The only thing that bothers me is the fact that the communist party still has influence in China.
But people cannot fight with eachother over ideas or differences, we need to work together.
I think China has come a long way, and the United States should become allies, not enemies with them.
War will solve nothing, especially nuclear war.
If the human race is going to make through the centuries to come, then all this petty crap needs to stop.
I believe we will make the right choices, and all this talk of war is derived from paranoid fears.
America can, and will, learn to share power, simple as that.
If not, then the we can go back to living in caves like stupid apes.
I feel sometimes that there is so much hate in the world, and its for no good reason.
It’s like the hippies used to say, “Make love and not war!”
cmon guys lets be realistic why would the US and china enage in a war with each other sure there will be some fat words said but all in all its just a media beat up.the body count would be in the millions the cost would be in the trillions and for no real gain.A war with these two countries would certainly escolate into a global conflict it would be the begining of world war 3 and the end of the world as we know it the political parties would do everything to stop a conflict such as this and thank god for that…
American you are having a laugh right.No Savagery ,cruelty,or injustice in American history ?!!!.Is there anything other than savagery cruely and injustice in it.Where does one start .Slaughter of millions of native Americans and theft of their Continent,Enslavement of millions of Africans,Slaughter of over a million Filippinos,Slaughter of millions of non combatants in World war 2,Slaughter of millions in Korea,Slaughter of millions of Vietnamese and poisoning of their country with agent orange.Involvement in the slaughter and the injustice perpetrated on the Palestinians.And now unjust attack on Iraq and slaughter there.Not to mention the mayhem you have brought to other nations by helping brutal dictators keep power if they are prepared to kiss your obese butts.You have destroyed the lives of countless millions of innocent people and will not stop until some great nation brings Karma to you.
You can thank American companies for bringing your lame ass country to the upper echelon of the rich list. Without the yanks, youd still be planting potato and raising sheep.
Fuku, what the hell? Anyone from Canada can’t take part in these matters. I mean really…………….what the hell has Canada ever done but sit back a watch the world tare itself apart. Canada is about as useful as an eyeball located beneath ones foot.
You Americans are so ignorant, you perceive China as if it were in the stone age with arrows and swords.. Face the facts.. You would not win in a war against China.
I can’t stand anyone of you ignorant and barbaric fools. Every one of you has not only said offensive remarks, but remarks that show your bias. The last remark made by the Australian was so damn stupid. He or she forgets that Australia ( along with other former British colonies) are close allies with America and like I said before, if a war between America and China broke out, there would be coalitions formed. Though China is becoming increasingly modern, they still haven’t been modern for along as the United States. America has f-22 fighter jets. These are called 5th generations fighters. No other country in the world has anything remotely as sophisticated as that. America also spends about 75 trillion (yes I have done research for all you stupid complainers) over the next big spender which is China. America conquered the 4th most powerful nation in a week (Iraq under Hussein) and is still fighting multiple wars over seas. America is a force to be reckoned with, and for all of you reading this and getting pissed off………you’re truly just expressing emotions of jealousy that your country didn’t become so awesome.
I was actually taking you serious until you said America conquered the fourth most powerful nation in a week…Irak under Hussein.It was at that point that I realised you were just another American idiot.And as for your idiotic remarks about american fighter jets being best in the world blah blah blah….the Eurofighter and the latest russian Migs can match any other aircraft in the world.
The US certainly has a large technological advantage over China in its army, navy and air force. However, there are numerous other aspects to a war than just technology.
If US invades China’s home soil, its most likely that US will be overwelmed by China’s land force. I mean China does have a huge army reserve. On top of that, most of China is well connected by good roads and railway. This means that China can concentrate an army of 10 million+ well trained/equipped soldiers in a small area within one or two weeks.
If China invades US. No its not gonna happen. China simply doesn’t have that projection capability to invade US.
If the battlefield is a third country, then US will have a large advantage and most likely to win. Except for battles fought in China’s immediate neighbours, such as NK, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.
If its a nuclear war, then the world is coming to an end. Not even here in Aus will we be able to escape the wrath of a nuclear winter.
to MuseforHire:
During WWII, Canada had about 1 million people in the armed forces (not all fought but were still a member of the armed forces) … our population was about 10 million at the time.
10% of our population contributed to WWII. No other country in history has ever come close to that proportion. At least the US was provoked and attacked at Pearl Harbour which ultimately brought them officially into the war. Canadians just chose to fight evil halfway around the world.
Within a few years from 1939 till the end of the war we started with a few ships to having the 4th largest navy in the world (3rd largest Allied navy).
So don’t talk shit about us Canadians. If anything the ignorant and arrogant Americans who have posted so far are “about as useful as an eyeball located beneath ones foot.” .
I’m Chinese too… damn proud to be Canadian Chinese / Chinese Canadian.
Funny that you say that, seeing you can stand yourself without problems.
No other country wants to waste so much of its military budget on something that is like an anti-ageing cream - lots of show, but not so much on the go. Face it, F-22 is nothing more than another UFO for new generation SAMs to shoot down. It is something as invincible today as the F-117 was in 1996. For half a decade, the American ignoramuses like yourself boasted of the invincibility to the F-117 stealth fighter, only to have their baloons punchered by Serbians weilding 1960s SAMs and radars.
75 trillions! My goodness! You are more entertaining than the “Americans are stupid” videos. Next time, make up something more believable than making a claim that the US military budget is 530% of its GDP.
What research? The one about what the US military budget will look like, if all Americans started a fundraising project by selling your mothers’, sisters’ and daughters’ bodies at $100 an hour? Well you’d have to keep them getting porked 8 hours a day* for the whole year (including public holidays). That is if American men can keep paying the $100 an hour to keep the program running.
What was America’s position then? Second place after Angola?
…like Tom and Jerry, ay?
Yeah, we are so jealous that we didn’t have your brains like this when we were 2 years and 35 days old. How tragic!
hahaha, enough said. Oh, and I didnt mean 75million, its about 75 billion.
You still seem to be confused,maths like reality do not seem to be your strong points LOL.
Oh, ur not Italian, Im sorry, your country’s flag is just so damn original………………….
The green and orange are the colours of the republicans and the loyalists,the white symbolises peace between them.
This is indeed a very hypothetical scenario, since both sides know very well the consequences of this war.
However if we are to analyze a war between these two countries, we would rather look at a the best possible scenarios. The US would never attack mainland China declaring a full war. It would be somewhever in a third place under some pretext - Taiwan or maybe North Korea. In such a case US would win hands down considering that China does not have the ability to fight remote battles and more importantly would not like to risk unnecessarily. Although some Chinese interests would be hurt it would not be enough provocation for a war with US. Ofcourse US would have gathered allies in UN for the fact that China has nothing to do since US hasnt attacked China.
The remote possibility of full scale attack on mainland China would be a very co-ordinated one. It simply wouldnt be a US vs China war. US would certainly get NATO, Japan and India in. Japan and India would be key - cause they stand to lose the most if they give even logistic support or allow use of their territory. China can bank of North Korea and may be Pakistan. Russia would be a surprise, may just choose not to join. In that case US wins hands down again.
However if Russia chooses to join or even shows an inclination to join on Chinese side, US would back off.
Infact, in the very very rare possibility where tensions escalate and US China war seems to be imminent, the Russians will have the power to stop it. If they chose to remain nuetral or side US, China will back off. If they clearly show inclination of joining Chinese side, US just wont attack. Imagine having to take on both together.
P.S. all this is very very hypothetical WW 3. Lot of people would have to do a lot of stupid things to make it happen. Indians, Japanese, EU, Russians etc.
Upendra…I could not imagine NATO ever getting involved in an attack on China.In Europe the only ones who might join the Americans would be Britain and thats even extremly unlikely.As for France, Germany, Italy not in a million years.The people of Europe are already sick and tired of American militarism and do not view China as being any threat and very difficult to view ever changing.Also if America fought a war with China and was succesful it would be a very battered America that would emerge from it.I doubt that Russia would be able to resist the opportunity this offered.America would be in the position of the wounded alpha animal in the herd and would soon be attacked and finished off.
I agree with what Henry said. There’s simply no incentive for Europe to aid the Attack. Getting NATO to join would be even more of a challenge, since the main reason for it’s existence is for a united defence against foreign aggressor attacking any of it’s member (and Taiwan is not a member :)), which I really doubt China will do.
@Upendra, with regards to your two scenarios, I see two very different approach and outcome, rather than just a simple matter of US winning hands down. I wouldn’t say a war in North Korea would present a lot of logistical problem for the PLA. For a start there’s no demanding amphibious requirement. The PLA should have little trouble shifting most of its forces to the peninsula. It would end up being a very land centralised war, playing to China’s strength. Actually just look at the Korean war and you see what I mean. The US forces got pushed all the way back to the 38th parallel when China entered the war, at one point all the way to Seoul, let alone win outright.
As for Taiwan, if the US wish to achieve the objective of disrupting an invasion of Taiwan, then they may well succeed. Although this possibility would be more credible during the 90s. If anything the third Taiwan strait crisis showed military leaders in China of a need for better defence against CVBG and since then the PLAN has acquired and built weapon platforms specifically designed to counter/destroy a CVBG, including the purchase of sovremenny and kilo from Russia, accelerated construction of song and Yuan submarine, and the development of anti-satellite weapons/anti-ship ballistic missile. If these can effectively threaten the US navy, then it won’t be a simple matter of the US winning hands down.
Oh and didn’t a Song class sub snuck up on a US carrier some time ago without them noticing? If that was war, the carrier’s not going to have a great day!
Henry is just mad cuz he’s irish and has a small dick. Stupid americans? I didn’t even know there was a fucking ireland anymore? Your gdp is 50 million potatoes. Cockboy! Btw if it wasn’t for America you’d be screaming “ha hitler!” So got fuck your fat irish mother and her slobby red-headed cunt!!!!!!!!!!!
You see the one fact that your all missing is the US has either lost or narrowly won the last several conflicts because we have not been fully committed. A war with China which threatens the existance of the United States would have complete and total support of the government. We would have free reign to unleash the true potential of the military. Vietnam was like sending a pitbull into a dogfight with a muzzle on. Congress didnt give full authority to do whatever was needed to win. You cant win a war with your hands tied behind your back. A US v China war head to head (not on chinese soil) would be won by the US.
Now that being said, in the real world, the Soviet Union, I mean Russia is drooling at the idea of joining forces with the Chinese in a war against the US and that my friends would be an impossible task for the US to overcome. The chinese would build an unstoppable military using Russian natural resources and energy. They are two of the largest countries in the world (land mass) so a US invasion would be impossible. They would have a far larger nuclear arsenal so a US nuclear threat would be useless. The sad reality is had we made an effort to create a REAL alliance with the Russians we would have an ally and a foot hole right at Chinas doorstep and then the Chinese would be at our mercy. Thanks Bush for ruining any chance of that happening though.
By the way no Europeans should be involved in a debate about how to win a war, there hasnt been a real European war victory in half a century and that was only thanks to US involvement in WW2 otherwise you would all be speaking German right now and chanting “Sieg Heil!!!”
This is war that I am sure no one wants to happen, but I am guessing that most people would be probably more lenient towards China than toward the USA because overall, China seems to be in a better light than USA, who most people view as a country full of hypocrites, religious fanatics and violent-based solutions. Besides, such a war would destroy both countries physically and economically, leaving behind two losers instead of only one.
The recent economic crisis has already shown the vulerability of United States. The US is not what is used to be and is a superpower in decline. All the western countries were suffering except nations like China and India who still had a 6% growth of gdp. Without these countries like China which has invested much in the US, the world economy would still be in decline.
In case of an war if China decided to pull out all of it financial reserves out of the US wil be become nothing more than a banana republic. Without the help of the Nato the US is not a big threat. The US are already fighting a doomed war in Iraq and were beaten by the vietnamese who were so called ”technology inferior”.
Time will show the US lose more of influence on the world stage. Instead other superpowers wil rise like the BRIC nations and take over the position of the US. This has always been the case with history. No ‘’superpower” remains forever.
The US mindset has to accept this than being ignorant.
It’s impossible for the US to win a war with China!!!
Economically China dominates the US and will continue to do so. War is not the right answer. The US can not afford it.
It was most entertaining to read this page! I’m no military expert myself but I did rather enjoy the “Americanism” that was posted on this site. Just goes to show how the US is so good at 1 thing…making their public fearless in a real war situation. I hope they never experience the real thing.
Can the United states WIN? a war against China?? I am Russian and i have to say that neither side can win without using massive amounts of nuclear weapons. To invade china or america it would require a suply line of over 5000+ miles over air or ocean. currently in Iraq on average for every soldier per day 16 barrles of oil is spent. IF there is a FULL SCALE war there is no way america will get that oil and sadly will be reduced to a much slower a cumbersome military. (your gona be needing some Hybrid abrams). Also Chinese peopel are a nationalistic peopel so you woudl have teh biggest partisan movement in history. So truthfully i woudl have to say that if any country would be able to win it would be China versus america. It has a HUGE industrial base and could outproduce and outman America. The Tide Is Turning
RedRussian..totally agree with your post above the tide is turning.Just wonder how Americans will cope with the new reality.While Russia was a military match for the USA it was never on their economic level.China on the other hand will surpass the USA as an economic giant and in time probably militarily as well.The balance of power in the world is once again shifting to the east.China has found a formula for success in its hybrid Communist/Capitalist system
a simple deterant against china would be more nuclear missles. what can 10 million soldiers do against 10 ICBM’s? so right now only the 2 of them can bomb each other but if it did come to a huge war alot of blood woud be shed over the tiny island of tiwan lol.
@ Captain V,
You should be a joker.What you have said is the funniest in this blog.I can’t stop laughing when I read your post.
@MuserforHire,
You are patriotic.I can sense that.But can you view things from multiple perspectives? Please stop being too rigid.
@Henry,
Does your stance shows the stance of most Italians?Your view is valuable.
@Jack,
You are no different from some biased Americans.They are insanely arrogant while you are overconfident of China.China,like the US,has many internal problems too.I’m a Chinese.I know that.
@RedRussian,
Any war between China and USA has nothing to do with you as a Russian,unless Russia wants to swallow up both China & USA after the two are paralysed.Russia poses threat to the world just like USA because of its extreme military overkill capabilities to destroy the world ten times.Just imagine Russia’s 16,000 nukes.Crazy isn’t it?Why Russia build so many nukes?For what purpose?
@To all from UK,
You guys are really more sensible than the Americans(who always love to compare ‘dick’ sizes ).I ,as a Chinese , cannot forget but can forgive Britain for its past sale of opium into China because Britain has established Hong Kong.We Chinese can learn British accounting and business principles from Hong Kong to gain access to Commonwealth markets.Money..Yummy..
@To all Canadians and Aussies,
You guys always help others in times of trouble without thinking of your own gain.What I love most about Canada is their tolerant citizens.God bless Canada!
@ To all Americans,
People might think that America is a hegemonic bully.In some cases ,it does.However,based on my Chinese viewpoint,the police called America has done a lot of destruction,but also has discouraged many countries from invading their neighbours for fear of US intervention.Everything is Ying-yang,meaning positive and negative.The negative side of US imperialism is destruction and widespread anarchy,while the positive side is USA’s role in preventing large scale war due to US position as the Balance of Power Axis in the world.US has done a lot to improve people’s lives by supporting their livelihood through rebuilding the industrial bases the people they have conquered although understandably for her own gains too.Take for instance post-war Japan and Germany.They were whacked by USA and later redeveloped by USA to become her allies.Now USA is doing the same to Iraq.I’ve known some Iraqi friends who said USA is not that terrible,it is the disunity among the Iraqi people that causes most chaos in Iraq.Back to USA-China case.The Chinese people thank USA as the God of Prosperity for buying their goods hence supporting the livelihood of many ordinary Chinese.Who said USA does only destruction?Even the Chinese PLA knows that USA is very supportive of China’s industry and would damn the notion of a US-China War!Everyone knows how corrupted and intimidating USA is,but are others different?No! Corruption,injustice,intimidation,and aggression is a global problem,not USA alone!To my US friends,you have many good excuses to attack many countries,but you have none to attack China.We,the Chinese people,will solve our own problems.If the Chinese Communist Party is corrupt,we’ll take it to our own to take out the corrupted officials or maybe even the Party itself.We’ll never allow ANY COUNTRY to topple the current ruling party and replaces it with PUPPET government serving any malicious foreigners!Final words,I hope Americans won’t become crazy enough to invade China like Hitler’s mindset.If Americans are well-behaved,the world rejoices as America currently has the most influence to project global direction.Are anyone still thinking like Stephen & Tyler? I hope none.
Yo you mention good an bad and i just want to say it isnt americas intrests. American goverement is supposed to provide for and protect ist citizens. Thats it. So if it means invadign a country for teh better life of its peopel it will be done. The peopel might not know why but itl happen. It doesnt matter to the goverment if the population of anoetrh country is starving or dieing. Unless there is a definate benifit in sight it wont usually help. Look at ww2. USA didnt care that europe was in ruins in 1945. but they needed help to fight against the soviet union. They knew they couldent do it alone. So america rebuilt Europe with the Marshal plan and that created a close bond. Look at africa. peopel are Dieing from malnutrition and desies liek flies. America isnt doign shit or any country for that matter because there is no benefit in sight. It “moraly” wrong but teh financialy right way to lead. Russia has stockpiled ALOT of munitions and weapons. Nuclear and conventional but it need it. 100 million people can not fend of a The chinese military without seriouse technological help and that is what it has to a point.
RedRussian,are you telling me that China may invade Russia? For what?
By the way,now I know why Russia needs so many nukes.
Because they are cowards.
RedRussian, I was just joking.
The clear reason for Russia to stockpile so many nukes because it faces Europe to the West ,China to the South,and most importantly,USA(Alaska ) to the East.Russia is the only superpower surrounded by so many superpowers therefore Russia is very insecure.
Although Russia has many nukes,they never use them.That’s good.Thus, I’m just wary but not hostile towards Russia.You’re right,no one does something for nothing.Interest comes first.
Russia has the world largest mineral and fossil fuel resources pool,and everyone is vying for a chunk in Russian natural resources.Just like USA’s insatiable hunger to rob oil.
Truthfully i dont know how RUssia will be able to survive as a country for much longer because of the resources it contains and its small military that protect them. Unless a Huge company is made like blackwater but hundreds of times bigger that could be bought to fight. Unless that happens Russias resources are going be worth more later and that will cause loads of problems. BUt seriously if a big war started china would be missing a few cities and comunication between its forward positions and command would be imposible so anything could happen.
Chinese clan..interesting to hear Chinese views on America.I know that the vast majority of Chinese do not have ill will toward America.But sadly many Americans as you can see from their posts view China as their enemy.Indeed before China developed a nuclear deterrent it was subject to threats of nuclear annillation by the USA.The problem is that America has become arrogant and drunk with power.It wants to impose a pax americano on the the other nations of the world.And any nation that can equal them in power and especially if it has a different political system will be viewed as a threat and an enemy.Really America is terrified of losing its position of top dog in the world.And as they are capable of electing unstable and intellectualy challenged leaders such as Bush,combine that with the foregoing plus their need for so much of the worlds resources which of course makes them view a nation such as China as a competitor and a rival.Taken all together it makes America the most dangerous and unpredictable nation on earth.It is in my opinion stable at the moment under Obama but who knows who or what will be in control there in the future.Oh and I am Irish not Italian (the flags are very similar).
Just to add in Europe I do not detect any fear of or ill will toward China.More an admiration for Chinas rise.But then we have learned to live with and compete peacefully with the rest of the world.
Dude you are sayign america is an uncontrolable beast that coudl cause major damage and yes. But it wont do it for no reason and for no gain. ALL americas actions are for a purpose of either protecting the states or raising funds. Now how that is down might be considered crude or insane but america is a very effective machine. And ofcorse they saw USSR as an enemy because they were fighting for control over the world in teh end. USSR fell apart adn China is takign its place. And why dhouldent be America afraid? China and all countries have same mentality of doign teh best for its people. So if war is nececary adn benefitial a second opinion wont even be reached.
RedRussian,your view point is good since you are a Russian-American.Please do not get offended when we talk about your Mother Russia.
By the way,RedRussian.Russian Military is extremely Strong.Perhaps world’s strongest.It is not small although Russia has a small population.Even USA fear direct confrontation with Russia.Remember during the Kosovo War , the USAF that prided itself for stealth,precise target acquiring, and world’s most advance avionics technology got its F-117 Nighthawks which was deemed invincible destroyed by older version of Russian Anti-Air System used by Serbian guerillas.Imagine if America attacks Russia with planes, I think all USAF pilots will storm White House and impeach the president for sending them to cold death in the hands of the powerful Russian Military.Nazi Germany will conquer all of Europe if not because of Russia’s might.
Im not offende but i usually see shit for what it is. RUssia isnt even in this argumenet but between China and USA. i would put my money on CHina.
RedRussian…the point you keep making is an obvious one.Of course the actions that nations take are what they see as advancing their interests.The same with individuals.One guy will see starting a business and working hard as a means to personal gain.Another will see robbing a bank at gunpoint as a means to achieve the same goal.They both basically have the same objective but the bank robber having the same basic objective as the business man does not justify his actions.The USA throwing its military weight around to achieve its objectives is very different from China and Europes policy of trade and peacefull co-existance.
@RedRussian,
Why r u putting your money in China?
@RedRussian Quote:
American goverement is supposed to provide for and protect ist citizens. Thats it. So if it means invadign a country for teh better life of its peopel it will be done.
Wow,invade other country for the better life of its people?! May God have mercy upon America!The country with the bank note printed with ” In God We Trust” justifies robbery of Iraq’s oil as a means to provide a better life to its citizens.What a hypocrisy!
No wonder my Australian friend tell me not to trust America !
America is the only or one of only countries that is even able to do this. The worl disg rowing and America is nto ont the top anymore. or soon to be shot down. So its fighting for control over strategic areas. I dotn see why you guys are so amazed by this. It doesnt justify why they blew a city up because it doesnt really have to. what are you gona do but USA in jail? no. America knows Europes dependance on America so it wont fight aginst it. It might argue over shit but never fight it. So are you saying america shouldent use its power that it has spent billions on to buidl and fought for for decades? Now thats unreasonable. Have you ever heard power corupts. Well in this case “ethics” and “morals” have been corupted which dont even have a meanign in war.
@RedRussian
Ethics and Moral has no meaning in anywhere. It is a fake thing created by man to bind the society together. If you go above the social level or below or even out of the society then words Ethic and Moral has no meaning. For example in the arena of international politics and diplomacy there is hardly any position for ethics or Moral. If you go to the wild in the jungle Ethics and Moral has no meaning. Even if you look at your own body in the biological point of view there is nothing called Ethics or Moral. Your own cells and many others are killed abused and destroyed to support your life. You put Ethics and Moral in that equation and you die withing a few hours. But again this Ethics and Moral is what makes us Human. This is the two things than creates the difference between a man and an animal. So real men should always care about ethics and moral. Yes even in War. You can look back to history and you can find many men who put Moral in front of victory in wars. It is our shame that we turned this bad today and men have no honor anymore.
The only time Ethics and morals come into play during war is when its over and “war criminals” are beign prosecuted for unethical treatment of prisoners or some bs like that. You ever hear “the victors write the history books”? That the only time ethics plays a real role. Yes on the front soldiers dont kill each other sometimes. one gets lucky and is let go or freed. Or soem general lets a route for a populouse to escape a conflict. yes it happens but in war where millions of lives are at stack and a whoel race is going to get demolished. there are no ethical lines. Its brutality vs brutality and the one that can endure wins.
@RedRussian
So why soldiers fight the battle?
WHy do soldiers fight any battle? For their personal belifes and or sometimes under a barrel. They fight for their people and relatives.
RedRussian,mind your spelling.
So there is a smell of moral and ethics in there what do you think?
For the common soldier? sure ofcorse there are once that shield children from bullets. ones that jump on grenades to save friends. In the individual case there is and always will be. However On a larger scale there is none. In war it is as brutal as it gets. If there is an apartment building with civiliand but soldiers are hiding in it. blow down the building. It is not in teh ntrest of the military to infiltrate the buildign looking for enemies. its easyer to blow it up adn have no lives lost of your own soldiers. Yes its brutal and yes its not “moral” however nothign shoudl stand in between the lives of 100+ million people.
Every one is talking about the us having a terrible small ground force not true. The Marines are probably the 2nd best trained G.I.s in the world if your talking about pure combat.(1st probably the Spetsnaz) and not to mention China army is tenably trained much less trained than most any US force.
My guesses: if the US is defeated, it will be an internal collapse due to corrupt politics, undisciplined finances, and overconfidence. If China is defeated, it will be a revolt of its own people against an oppressive government which denies them freedoms deserved by all people. Neither country would attack the other under any “reasonable” circumstances due to mutually assured destruction.
It’s unfortunate that people so strongly identify with the particular chunk of soil they happened to be born on that they forget we are all members of the same human race and more alike than we realize. It’s easier to stereotype members of another country and say “They” are all a certain way. It’s also easy to judge an entire nation for the action of its leaders, even when many living in that country may not agree with those actions. Does any nation truly operate as one body and mind?
Perhaps at some point in the future, better sources of resources and energy can be found so that countries do not have to compete against each other in order to advance. A clean, abundant, renewable energy source would go a long way towards this. Imagine the problems that could be solved if all of the most powerful countries worked together instead of feeling threatened by each other. Like it or not, we’re all in this together, and many problems today affect everyone on the planet. This page only serves to inflame those unproductive sentiments and bring out the worst of humanity. Progress towards a true global society can only take place once individual people in each country put aside their personal ambitions and distrust. That starts with you and me.
Why would anyone want the u.s and china to fight a war. Who ever thinks that should be shot (just kidding). But seriously a war between the two would be devastating to both parties. But to get to the topic a hand the U.S would win in a conventional war just as “Gomzi” stated. Even then the U.S would suffer tremendous casualties probably anywhere from 50,000 kia or wia to 500,000. While China would lose anywhere from 100,000 kia and wia to 5 million kia or wia. But on the other hand the U.S would suffer more economically than China. But if it becomes a nuclear war then were not talking about 100 million dead on both sides, but the end of world. The nuclear fallout and the dust created by the explosions would block sunlight for many years therefore creating many famines and possibly a miny ice age and with that many will die.
hope
China may win. The war already began. China is purchasing the world. China, (the enemy) is even manufacturing some of U.S. weapons. It will be a conventional war. All satellites may be destroyed. High tech weapons will be of no good. The U.S. is in financial problem. Usually, the country with the most money wins the war. Remember Russian and Germany during during the second world war. Germany had the best weapons, soldiers, etc. However, they lacked on fuel, manpower, etc. The Russians had more factories than the Germans had. Read the history of war. U.S. won world war 2 because they were the largets industrial nation. China is now the largest industrial nation. And China is becoming larger and richer. I will not be surprised if over 1 million chinese airplanes attack any country at the same time. China has the manpower. I don’t know of any country that has over 1 millons defense missels to shotdown 1 million airplanes. It will be too expensive.
I personally don’t think USA would have any chance against China.
USA Democratic country.
-> this is one of the reason. Its security & services are public based. Everything is disclosed to president of USA or Parliament. They have the right to know how much funds to give etc.
China
-> The country government is dictatorship not democratic. The government wont disclose how much advanced their weapons & Equipments are.
America has better technology then China?
-> This maybe true on public level. But not on military level. China may be far more superior in biological weapons & technologies. They just wont announce it, to keep low profile.
-> CHINA’s Government is far richer then america. They have trillions of US dollars for spare. Its like they are making fun of america’s economy.
Think of labor cost building 1 airfleet by United State.
Compare the cost with building 1 airfleet by china.
It will be waay cheaper. China would make 5-10 most advanced air fleet which would make only 1 basic airfleet by american.
Not to mention if China Vs USA war breakout. There is high chance of alliance between Russia,China, India and other countries.
“The only winning move is not to play” Wargames. I belive that common sense and self preservation will prevent a WWIII scenario.
the US is a strong nation but sadly the whole entire world would have to gang up on China for them to actually be defeated with their HUGE military and lets not forget north korea that’s also has a large army, personally if the US had prevented China from even thinking of becoming communist or taken it over after its disaster mess war with Japan none of this would even happen and all we would have to worry about is North Korea that with help of the Russian army we could defeat
Hi All,
Interesting feedback and comments. I have served with the british military, it was what i was good at at my friend have died due to political greed and Religous hate.
The war in the middle east has raged for 1000 years and it is not worth dragging other countries into a dispute which is not thier own. If the western powers can have ballistic missiles then why cant other countries?
Is it worth the lives of all the men that have been lost? All this arguing over who has got the biggest balls and who is the superpower ect. At the end of the day there is one way to look at it. The US s powerful because it does have the manpower, technology and the Allies. China have been doing this for milleniums. For as long as history goes there has been conflict there.
To be honest if the view of the world leaders is to create situations where disputes can happen then they should not be in power.
A War settled by words can be the only war won.
I enjoy what i do and i am good at it. I serve with the best there is. However there is always a different path to take. Stop fighting each other and work together for the good of everyone.
China would never want to have a war with the United States again. However, China will always continue to strengthen its military strengh for a possible war with the United States.
The chinese people never see the americans as their enemy, because for the China, the only truly enemy is Japan, which was once upon a time also your enemy.
Perhaps you’ve already forgotten, long long time ago, China and the US were allies during WWII. We were friends, and never an enemy to each other. The korean war was only a silly war which Mao was forced by Stalin to fight against the US. This however would never happen again.
Again, China would never want to fight against the americans, but as a Chinese, I can tell you that China would never be afraid to have a war with anyone if forced to be. And we are always prepared to .
LOL China is never going to ally with India. Adding India as an ally would not help anyway. China has always sponsored and supported whether militarily or economically its puppet state of pakistan. Pakistan would have collapsed decades ago if it were not for Chinese support. The arrogant Americans naively think that they can tame pakistan, by appeasing it first and now fighting a weak proxy war via afghanistan. This is the same america that lost in the korean war and vietnam proxy wars against china. Notice how bashing america and the west is so popular in pakistan, whereas when china was “taking good care” of its uighurs in xinjiang there was not one squeak out of pakistan. Pakistan’s long term interests are definitely allied at the minimum with Beijing if not directly coordinated by the CCP itself.
I am a chinese american in the united states Navy. What should happen is the United states and China should team up and take over the rest of the world. After they decimate the rest of the world. The US will take north and south americas, africa and split europe. China will take Asia, Austrailia, and the other half of europe. and the chinese american alliance will rain supreme for all eternity.
LONG LIVE CHAMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im a pilino i live in phillipines believe me man almost people in the phillipines are pro american infact most of us speak english rather than our dialec..but in terms of war china and us people in the phillipines will never support in us….so dont think all you called allies today will be your allies in war in future…
This topic is pointless so long as Anti-Americanism and Anti-China sentiments persist.
China will never win USA bcoz of the distance between contiguous USA and China.China’s huge ground forces are just waste products against USA since China will never have the chance to field a beachhead on US West Coast.China have the numbers so what?Are Chinese soldiers biologically amphibious to be able to swim across the Pacific Ocean and overrun USA?Bullshit!Even if China moves across the Pacific,they have to pass through numerous US garrisons stationed around the Pacific.Invasion of Chinese forces on USA is made impossible by logistical inconvenience.
What about invasion of US forces on China? It won’t happen! Why?USA can’t even win the hearts and minds of the Chinese.Let’s assume that USA penetrated China’s defence and occupy China,it will be the most gruesome nightmare ever for US forces bcoz they have to face a 1 billion potential guerilla fighters.Not even a US military colt can sleep,for fear of never-ending ambushes by the Chinese.If in Vietnam US lost 60,000 men,in China they will lose millions of soldiers.
Final resolution,apocalypse Nuke or peace deal.China would lose 1/2 of its population in a US nuclear barrage, but such an act will provoke the deadliest revenge against USA in the future.The leftover Chinese will have only one thing in mind ——Cannibalism.Since most crops are destroyed in a Nuclear War,the only thing to eat is American flesh.OMG.